My deliberative speech on why people should be more tolerant towards smokers

[Infin1ty]

I really enjoyed the speech, and I thought you made some excellent points. I for one can you tell you right now that if cigarettes became illegal I would never quit.

[Infin1ty]

Originally Posted by DubintheDam

"Get with the program"....I had an American friend once ask me "am I an alcoholic?"....I replied, "no of course not Jim, you drink two or three cans of that shit lite beer each night and that wouldn't even get a cat drunk". But he was being so pressured to attend a program for alcoholism because he was stopped by police whilst driving after having one lite beer...he wasn't even over the limit!

There is a huge pressure to "Get with the program" in the states, whatever the program is, it often defies logic and is almost fanatical for it's own sake.

For me I'm all for a smoking ban in bars, restaurants and public buildings, I'm however against a ban in outdoor spaces...that said with what we currently understand of global warming; a 'complete' ban on all cars/motor bikes/trucks over the entire planet would be 'too little too late'. I would gladly support a total ban on all vehicles tomorrow (excluding public transport)...and..I do not consider this statement in any way excessive or fanatical. But I know nobody's going to "get with that program", despite it's needed urgency and supporting science. Big problems need big answers...the smoking ban is but a mere 'smoke screen'.

I have to ask, why such harsh views on global warming. Yes there is some scientist who believe that we are the cause of it, but the vast majority believe that it is a naturally occurring process and nothing we do is going to change it. Not just did that, did you know that the year 2007, was the coldest year in past 50 years, so cold that it completely threw off the theory of Global Warming.

I think a complete ban on all non public transport vehicles would be complete BS.

Anyways, on to the tobacco issue. I completely agree with that was stated in the post above me (not the one I'm quoting) and that is that it should be up to the owners of an establishment on whether or not you can smoke, if you allow the government to make decisions like that for you, then there is no point in us as humans to even have free will, because at that point, it is completely stripped away from us.

[DubintheDam]

Just to clear up any confusions here...I support a smoking ban in public buildings (even though I'm a smoker). I do not support a ban in outdoor (parks, sidewalk etc) public places which is, I believe being suggested in some states in the USA.

Lastly I thinks motor fumes are a much bigger issue for both individuals health and the health of the planet. I do also feel we need drastic measure's to be taken in order to deal with global warming...I think a complete ban on the use of fossil fuels for anything other than public transport or public services would be a sensible thing to do...I also know this will never happen...so god help planet earth. As for contradicting myself...I make a point of doing it all the time.

[Samsonite]

I think you made a good speech with many good points. There are two forms of discrimination currently a-okay by 90% of Americans, and those are obesity and smoking. There should either be no discrimination (bad idea) or allow discrimination and let the government stay out of it (good idea). People should not be forced to be compassionate of anyone, but our rights should still stay in tact. Tobacco is a legal substance and just because someone is annoyed by it, then too bad. They can move away. There's no right for someone not to be offended, but there is every right to offend.

As for the global warming thing, our cars, trucks, motorcycles, fossil fuels aren't doing anything worse to the planet than chewing bubble gum. In fact, many scientists and botanists agree that our greenhouse emissions are currently helping the planet, and there's a study that supports if we suddenly stopped emitting our gases, the environment would get much worse at a much more rapid pace.

Freedom, my friends, is what everything boils down to. They take away our right to smoke and then they take away our right to eat what we like. It was once said that too many choices (like to smoke or not to smoke) make people unhappy. I say I'd rather be free and unhappy than happy and controlled.

[tnip23]

Originally Posted by DubintheDam

Just to clear up any confusions here...I support a smoking ban in public buildings (even though I'm a smoker). I do not support a ban in outdoor (parks, sidewalk etc) public places which is, I believe being suggested in some states in the USA.

Lastly I thinks motor fumes are a much bigger issue for both individuals health and the health of the planet. I do also feel we need drastic measure's to be taken in order to deal with global warming...I think a complete ban on the use of fossil fuels for anything other than public transport or public services would be a sensible thing to do...I also know this will never happen...so god help planet earth. As for contradicting myself...I make a point of doing it all the time.

you seem to dismiss property owner's rights all to easily when you call for a ban in all public places. also, as far as a ban on all fossil fuels except for public services, obviously you live in a situation where that somehow makes sense. for those of us who live in a large country, in a rural area, separate by choice from the urban centers that we view as workplaces, not living spaces, we need our cars and our fossil fuels. IMHO the problem isn't a lack of fossil fuels, but a lack of the political will to go get them. as far as the man-made global warming hypothesis, it is politically and financally driven hogwash. i respect you as a fellow BOTL, but your viewpoints lack respect for individual rights and reek too much of socialism for my american soul.

[DubintheDam]

I don't wish to stir up a heated debate on global warming....or on personal liberties/freedoms. To keep the debate on topic...I do consider motor fumes more dangerous to people's health than tobacco smoke. That is my opinion.

I do not blame anyone for driving a car, even a gas guzzeling SUV. I do however blame govenments around the world for not doing MORE in recent decades to improve and promote the use of public transport and fuel efficient cars.

I also go with the Al Gore line of thought on global warming and shock horror!... I am in principle a socialist democrat who believes in a free market economy.

To come back to the smoking ban which will also come into place here on July 1st. As 70% of people don't smoke and generally don't want smoking in public buildings or restaurants...and...as science does suggest it is possible to get cancer from passive smoking...I support the ban and consider this the responsible thing to do even as a smoker myself.

As for personal freedoms...they come with both personal, social and global responsibilities.

[parris001]

Originally Posted by DubintheDam

I also go with the Al Gore line of thought on global warming and shock horror!... I am in principle a socialist democrat who believes in a free market economy.

Dub, I respect you greatly although our political opinions couldn't differ any more . I only responded to this with a quote and to make the point that I think that, like you, Gore is a Socialist Democrat. I just wish everyone else realized what he is..........

[Al_Samson]

that was impressive, i enjoyed it. u made some excellent points. i also believe that instead of banning something like tobacco the government needs to realize that it is our responsibility as humans to use moderation, without moderation the world would not be so good a place.

[Infin1ty]

With Tobacco, its a bit tough to use moderation, especially if your a cigarette smoker. Regardless there are a lot of areas that we as humans could use to learn moderation, but I do not believe that tobacco is one of them, it is a naturally occurring plant, in which there is not even a slight sign for a shortage.

[tnip23]

Originally Posted by DubintheDam

I don't wish to stir up a heated debate on global warming....or on personal liberties/freedoms. To keep the debate on topic...I do consider motor fumes more dangerous to people's health than tobacco smoke. That is my opinion.

I do not blame anyone for driving a car, even a gas guzzeling SUV. I do however blame govenments around the world for not doing MORE in recent decades to improve and promote the use of public transport and fuel efficient cars.

I also go with the Al Gore line of thought on global warming and shock horror!... I am in principle a socialist democrat who believes in a free market economy.

To come back to the smoking ban which will also come into place here on July 1st. As 70% of people don't smoke and generally don't want smoking in public buildings or restaurants...and...as science does suggest it is possible to get cancer from passive smoking...I support the ban and consider this the responsible thing to do even as a smoker myself.

As for personal freedoms...they come with both personal, social and global responsibilities.

dubin, i agree that motor fumes are a more dangerous substance than tobacco smoke, and from there and the fact that we both enjoy tobacco, we part ways. obviously, as a social democrat you view gov't as part of the solution to problems, i view them as the problem.

i want my gov't to protect me from foreign invaders and internal crimnals, take care of the infrastructure, and leave me the hell alone.
the single most important right, other than free speech, is the right to do with your property as you wish.

the science on second hand smoke and man made global warming is dubious at best. you choose to err on the side of the politically motivated scientists and the gov't bureaucrats, i choose the side of the rugged individualist (who is also generally the most genrerous when it comes to supporting his fellow man through his charity.) as well as everyone else out here in the unwashed masses who don't want to share their ride to work with a couple dozen strangers or participate in any other activity that makes no difference whatsoever to the fate of our earth or environment (carbon credits, recycling products that use more energy to recycle than dispose of et. al.) other than to line the pockets and stroke the egos of algore, obama, and the like.

i am all for doing my part to make this a better world for us all. i donate to charities, i don't litter, i am using compact fluorescent bulbs, yet i am constantly branded as "not green enough" by those who wish to impose their political environmentalism by keeping us from drilling in the vast artic wasteland that is ANWR, calling for increased restrictions on every company that isn't based in china or a 3rd world country, and constantly wanting to take more of my money through taxes, only to restrict more of my freedoms through things like smoking bans.

This isn't a direct shot at you dubin, but i only wish i could lay back in amsterdam, smoke some good legal herb, lay down with a top shelf lady, and forget that the whole world including my wonderful country is creeping towards socialism, something that you embrace and i fear. we should all care for our fellow man, it should be something we do by choice however, not by gov't imposed edict. smoke a good one and have a nice day.

p.s. as always apologies for the run on sentences and lack of capitalization.