another smoking ban

[Requiem]

Originally Posted by letsgomountaineers

so i finally got around to reading friday's campus paper only to see wvu is considering a complete campus ban on smoking, forcing those who would smoke to stand in little roofed boxes, hotboxing themselves. since i live in a non-smoking apartment with way too many smoke dectetors, smoking outside is my only opition.
but these social fascist, scared by reports of massive second hand smoking have decided rather than risk the welathfare of those smokers who would not normally be exposed to such large amounts of second hand smoke.
these boxes, which will expose these smokers, and to be fair let's just put it out there that most cigarette smokers or minorities or from lower socio-economic stati, can roughly be equated to passive gas chambers for these "undesirables".
to say nothing of what the massive amounts of second cigarette smoke will do to me, a pipe smoker. any lawyers read this site? any liability there?
to conclude my rant, while i myself dont like cigarettes, we must stand with all smokers for we will all be painted with the same brush.

I´m a lawyer. Although I´m portuguese, and the european system has some major differences from the US system, law principles are universal (at least, in the western portion of the world) and one only as to be observative and acknowledge in which direction the wind blows.
Smoking (in general) is going to be totally banished from the US in 10 to 20 years (even in your own home - there will be no tobacco lawfull business). 5 to 10 years later it will happen in Europe too.
The debate in the US has already moved from the concerns about 2nd hand smoke to the individual right to freely decide to have a smoke without disturbing anyone else (the mentioned prohibition of smoking in golf courses and parks are the clear sign of it).
The kids born today will probably never smoke and will have a minor contact with smokers, so the younger generations will be more and more insensible to smokers rights, while more and more offended my 2nd hand smoke.
The main problem, economically (because all major political decisions are based in economics) is that cigarette smoking causes a bigger health expense than taxes incomme. The 2nd hand smoke works as an excuse, as it would be really rude if the gov. would say: "we took a lot of profit from cigs, but we do not want to keep spending it in health care for those who smoke".
Pipe smoking, for those who are not as informed as we are, looks like more damaging than cigarette smoking, and looks like more invasive towards non-smokers... so, there´s no real chance to make a political distinction between pipes and cigs.

that´s my 2 cents, as you use to say.

ps- about letsgomountaineers question on liability I would say: if it goes to a judge (very, really, incredibly, hardcore) sympathetic to smoke, there would be a chance... but the decision would be appealled and the higher judges would not probably all be as sympathetic...
otherwise: no chances... in those grey places of the law, and specially on those where political and social debate is going on, politics and sociology makes the rule.

[letsgomountaineers]

im hoping the states that grow tobacco will stand up for themselves. phillip morris is rated as one of the best companies to work for in the country.

[letsgomountaineers]

My email to the President of West Virginia University: (thanks for the quote )

Originally Posted by letsgomountaineers

President Magrath,
I recently read the D.A.'s article on a proposed smoking ban. I felt I must implore you to deny such a ban.
While much discussion has been made of the risks of second hand smoke. While I agree that massive amounts of second hand smoke are harmful, there is NO evidence I can find to say walking by someone smoking outdoors is harmful in any way. The National Cancer Institute's web site does not recognize exposure to second hand smoke can even happen outdoors.
I have even heard smoke allergies suggested a reason for the ban. To any person who thinks on it, though, how could the university protect smoke allergies when I can buy peanuts in the Mountainlair or at Bits and Bytes. There's an allergy that kills people. If a person were to use allergies as a reason to ban smoking, he would manipulate truth in a manner to similar to lying. You sir, are no liar.
The only issue here is some people find the odor unpleasant. Well Mr. Magrath, I will not stand by as you begin the process of hiring people to sample my cologne or to sit outside my classes and sniff my armpits before allowing me into class, nor will I stand by while you dictate my odor on this occasion.
You see Mr. Magrath, many students here do physical labor to help pay their way through school. While working construction, if you sit down to take a water break, you're ran back to work. A cigarette break will earn you a reprieve, should you not have a water cooler to gossip around at your workplace. For those students who pick tobacco in the summer, smoking provides a needed tolerance to nicotine to keep them from getting voilently ill. Should you attack them because their odor is unpleasant?
Moreover, these proposed smoking boxes would force the students and staff into a semi-indoor setting were second hand exposure is a risk, unlike smoking outdoors. You will greatly increase smokers' exposure. Would you be willing to pay the difference in their medical bills? What about people like me, who do not expose themselves to chemicals in cigarettes (I smoke a pipe)? Will you dip into the university coffers or your own pocket should the chemicals in cigarettes harm me when I am more exposed by this ban? I even find the odor of cigarettes unpleasant. Will you have separate booths for those who do not smoke cigarettes but smoke a pipe or cigars?
Also, keep in mind smokers in general are from a lower socio-economic rung than non-smokers and are more likely to be minorities. Look at this issue in that light: these proposed smoking boxes increased tendency to expose the poor and minorities to higher levels of smoke than they would be normally. From there, these smoking boxes can be viewed as passive gas chambers, to rid the campus of those minorities, those troublesome poor. Not exactly a good strategy for a university that honors diversity and takes pride in first generation college students.
In conclusion, demand proof that walking by me will I puff merrily away on my pipe is harmful to anyone else. There is none. Do not abridge my freedom to go where I please because someone finds the odor unpleasant. That is not a precedent any decent man would like to see set.
Should you wish to discuss this issue further, I would be delighted to meet with you and have a conversation on this subject.

***********

I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments by those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations.
-James Madison

[letsgomountaineers]

Originally Posted by Arizona

Be a Rebel my friend! What are they gonna do? Roll out the campus SWAT team on you?

if only you realized the seriousness of that statement. they used teargas on the students to keep them from rushing the field after a 1-2 team beat number 3 ranked VT in 03. and the dogs. teargas sucks, but the dogs... ugh. whatever i do, im staying the hell from those d**n dogs.

[armod]

some of these bans are rediculous.

they tried to ban smoking on beaches in sydney because there was too many cigarette butts in the sand.

luckily the premier of that state didn't pass the bill and just put trash cans along the beaches instead.



if those boxes aren't ventilated you could possible get a doctor to tell you that it's an edangerment to your health.

[selleri]

Originally Posted by Requiem

that cigarette smoking causes a bigger health expense than taxes incomme.

That is not true according to recent studies if you look at the big picture. Non-smokers live longer and therefore use the health care system more.

PLoS Medicine - Does Preventing Obesity Lead to Reduced Health-Care Costs?

"The Main FindingsThe study found that although annual health-care costs are highest for obese people earlier in life (until age 56 years), and are highest for smokers at older ages, the ultimate lifetime costs are highest for the healthy (nonsmoking, nonobese) people."

[dogsplayinpoker]

Problem with complaining about the smoking boxes is that they will just do away with them. In their minds, with your arguments about health, you are proving their point.

[IrishCamel81]

Originally Posted by dogsplayinpoker

Problem with complaining about the smoking boxes is that they will just do away with them. In their minds, with your arguments about health, you are proving their point.

I heard some colleges are now making 'free speech boxes'. For people who are pro life mostly. But I think smokers would be put there as well. If you want to protest or chant or display, they mark an area away from traffic for you to stand in.

[Mad Hatter]

When I was a kid smoking was allowed most anywhere including hospital waiting rooms. I can't remember if it was allowed in the doctors' offices or not but I don't think so. So for the most part anywhere you went there were cigarettes burning in ashtrays on the checkout counters, restaurants were full of smoke, people smoked in the checkout lines and while shopping and every store front was littered with cigarette butts (they even had packs of candy cigarettes for kids which were very popular). You couldn't really go out without coming home smelling like smoke but the majority of people smoked so it wasn't a big public issue. It must have been pretty damned annoying especially to those baby boomers who were trying to kick the habit and now form the backbone of the anti-smoking movement. Sure the bans seem overboard at times but if you were born in the 80s then you missed the smoking culture of the 50s, 60s and 70s that inspired them.

[drastic_quench]

Yeah, my parents have told me that back in the day when they'd buy clothes from JC Penny's or someplace, they'd smell like smoke when they brought them home (both non-smokers). That's so far removed from our reality now.