My first English and Virginia experiences...

[Lord Wigglybottom]

Well the first thing I can say about this is wow.

Having only smoked blends prior to these that tipped more towards the aromatic end of the spectrum, I was not expecting the experience I got.

The other day I went into my (semi) local B&M and explained my predicament: I have two cobs, I have smoked two blends, love the hobby but am still more than green and would like to try a Virginia and an English. The kicker: I'd heard heavy latakia blends could be somewhat overwhelming to the new pipe smoker so I asked for some good "entry level" suggestions.

Well, the man was more than happy to offer his opinion and before long I was hooked up with an ounce of something called "Sweet Virginia" which is essentially a virginia blended with some cavendish. The second was an ounce of "Navigator" which a (recently retired, but long-time) employee blended up himself - apparently he only ever smoked English blends but found that most of them got a bit too heavy to smoke all day, so he mixed up something a bit lighter for prolonged smokes.

The first one I introduced myself to was the Virginia blend, and while it smelled for all intents and purposes like far smoother, far sweeter cigarette smoke (without even a hint that awful sour note) I didn't end up tasting a whole lot until about halfway through the bowl. At that point though I'm not sure whether I was experiencing some kind of gustatory hallucination or not because my tongue was frying. I couldn't smoke this thing cool enough, and it was like no tongue bite I have ever experienced. My cob was cool as a cucumber, and I noticed no heat whatsoever in my draws but it felt like I was licking a habanero. On the bright side, it did smoke down all the way to the bottom with only one relight 'round mid-bowl which I attribute to a relative inexperience in packing (filling, Moo! Filling, I promise!) that particular tobac.

To sum up for the Virginia: Extremely confused about being bitten by an otherwise cold pipe. I'm going to give it several more bowls before making my final judgement, at least when it comes to that blend in a cob.

Now the English was a different story altogether. That -did- smell a big cigarette-y and for the first time since beginning the hobby I got the "you actually do kinda stink this time" from the girlfriend. Oh well, it doesn't linger at least. Again, I didn't notice much besides "yep, that's smoke all right" until around mid-bowl. Then I caught a faint flavor. Wasn't sure what at first so I kept sipping and it didn't hit me until the bowl was nearly finished. I tasted marzipan. Very faint beneath the campfire taste of latakia, but damn it if it wasn't marzipan. I'm still fascinated by the taste even though the roomnote (balcony note in my case) wasn't much to write home about. On the other side, I had to hold my pipe extremely carefully towards the middle of the bowl and thereafter because that sucker heated up like I've never felt. I knew cobs were supposed to smoke a bit hot but this? That being said, I felt minor tongue bite with the English blend (how the hell does that work? Tremendous bite from a cold piped VA and minimal bite from the same pipe that smoking at roughly the temperature of the sun?). During my post-English tooth brushing though I thought I was going to die. My otherwise mild peppermint toothpaste might as well have been concentrated listerine. Pardon my language mods, if it's against the rules but that shit hurt!

Can I get some perspective from the more experienced VA and English lovers on this one? I'm more than willing to love both types (based on these blends, at least) but the tongue experience is giving me pause. I thought aromatics were supposed to smoke hotter than VA's and English blends, yet my black cherry cavendish and my Yosemite (a vanilla-y demi-aromatic) didn't give my tongue or my pipes near as much grief.

[Professor Mike]

Lord WB:
PM me your address and I'll send you some samples of "GOOD" English blends. My I suggest Astleys No#109 in the straight Virginia blend. GL Pease is introducind a new straight Virginia Union Square. See their web-site for details.As Vapers go I really like Escudo. C&D has a blend for those converting from aro's to English. It's Crosseyed Cricket. Hope this will give you a more plesant experience.

Kindest Reguards

Prof. Mike

[Mad Hatter]

There are two things I'd say. First although I've only smoked about six aromatics I never noticed them smoking hotter than other tobaccos like others claim. Second I'd say try some name brand tobaccos. You don't know where your B&M get their tobaccos or what level of quality they are.

[Lord Wigglybottom]

@ Prof. - Wow, what a kind offer! I really appreciate it - I'll send you my address right away.

@ Mad Hatter and Prof. - That I don't know exactly where my B&M gets their bulk tobacs only just occurred to me. I'm going to throw in the "they -seemed- very reputable" excuse for good measure. I did see several name brand blends on their shelves - Red Rap and Squadron Leader among them and they deal in some -very- nice pipe from Dunhill to Tsuge to some absolutely stunning pipe that's going for 10 grand...well they have quite a collection, let's leave it at that. It's called The Briar Patch (Sacramento, CA) if anyone is feeling curious.

And like a complete newbie, I didn't get the Red Rap or Squadron Leader because I was dead-set on a VA and an English and was drawing a complete blank on which they were at the time. I am so ashamed of that.

Name brand is definitely where I'll stick for now though, as I'm still not likely to know a tobacco of truly good quality from a hole in the ground.

Thanks again for setting me straight guys

[8ball917]

This is really good info since I'm in the same boat. I am dead set on going to my local tomorrow to try some English and/or Va. I'll try to look for some name brands. From what I've been reading, Squadron leader and Escudo are pretty darn good. Man I hate being new at things.

[longburn]

I don't smoke a pipe as much now as I used to (cigars now) but still have an occasional bowl and have smoked a lot of both virginias and english mixtures.

In a nutshell:
English smells aweful (to non smokers and women) but tastes great...especially on a cool/cold day. But it has a slightly mediciny/licorice flavor for the most part but it's something very addictive. It's easy on the tongue.

Virginias are much more acceptable to the nonsmoker/women and they have a more clean tobacco pleasant taste but they are famous for burning the tongue unless well aged or fermented.

Some of each that I enjoy:

VIRGINIA: Christmas cheer by McClelland,they come out with a can each year for the holidays and it is pure Virginia and a beautiful smoke with no tongue bite and a nice aroma.I swear,the flavor reminds you of ketsup. I have two unopened cans from 2006 that should be beautiful about now if your interested in one.

Blackpoint by G.L. Pease this is a mixture of red and lemon virgina,Cyrian Lutakia,oriental and perique. It has the best of both worlds in that it doesn't have the tongue bite of most pure Virginia's or the heavy smell of pure English.

Fillmore by G.L. Pease: This is a blend of Virginia and Louisiana Perique.Perique adds an interesting flavor but more importantly it mellows and cuts the tongue bite of the Virginia.

[dmkerr]

M'lord,

The Briar Patch is above reproach. One of the best B&M store's I've ever seen. I didn't buy any of their "house blends" so can't comment there but they know their stuff. I wish I lived closer to it.

As for aromatics smoking hotter than others, my experience is that smokers are trying hard to get more flavor out of them, hence they puff faster which makes the smoke hotter.

[Professor Mike]

Galen;
I'm having trouble with my PM's. I can't get it to come up,however I got your address off my e-mail notification. Give me a couple of days and I'll send you a couple of good English samples. If by chance you donot care for them please pass them on to a friend.It's that PIF thing that pipe smokers are known for. In any event enjoy and welcome to the Slippery Slope.

Kindest Reguards

Prof. Mike

[Lord Wigglybottom]

I've long been curious about Christmas Cheer, having heard so much about it. I really need to secure a good method for purchasing online (I won't get into the current complications). But longburn, I have your post copied to a notepad for quick reference because I can be a bit of a slow study sometimes.

@dmkerr- glad to hear the only B&M I have access to has the seal of approval from a more experienced BOTL. While I found their pipe prices to be a bit high as compared to what I've seen online, the staff has been very patient and helpful while I pawed clumsily through their selection of leaves and they were happy to bring out whatever pipe I wanted a closer look at. In any other hobby, friendly help like that (and like one finds on these forums) is hard to come by.

Tonight I took another stab at the Virginia in my other cob and the experience was much more even. I took special care to smoke that sucker as slowly as I could possibly manage which helped greatly. I even tasted some very pleasant creamy notes this time around. It quite happily smoked all the way down to a fine ash as well and I'm looking forward to the next bowl a few days from now.

As for the Navigator, I think I'll save that for when I'm not planning to have company that evening just out of courtesy for her nose. I have a feeling that at least with that English, I will need to take extra time to develop and savour a good relationship.

Also thinking it's maybe time to secure a new cob or two just to be on the safe side. I would hate to get a skewed experience with a new blend because of a sour cob and being none the wiser!

[longburn]

I can send you a can of the Christmas Cheer 2006 which I tried in that year and found it a good year so it should be great now if you like. Just let me know your postal info.

[Mister Moo]

I agree with the Madhatter wisdom of moving to some name brands. A word about B&M blends... crapshoot.

There are blends and there are blends. One of my favorite virginias is a local B&M concoction. If they just blended it that week and put it on the shelf for sale it will be very raw and bitey; if it sits for a week or two ot three before it's offered it melds, softens and is quite good.

Many (most?) B&M blends are just bulk Altadis (or whatever) stuff tossed in a jar, often rebadged on the jar as something that the storeowner thinks sounds "exclusive". Some B&Ms blend bulk tobaks with branded blends to change it a bit; and some blend their own stuff from scratch - mostly bad to my taste. B&Ms appear to sell a lot of aromatics and burley-rich blends none of which are to my taste. Most seem loaded with PG to insure it is eternally overly wet.

As a new pipe smoker your experience with this range of possibilities can be great, so-so or bad but, whatever it is, it won't translate into anything we'll know much about. If you say "this happened" or "that happened" with Full Virginia Flake or Squadron Leader and a cob we'll have a common language. If you get some Christmas Cheer (a slightly difficult starter blend) and wonder why you can't get the hard unbroken flake to burn, we'll say, "Yeah. It can be that way. Let it dry a little more then beat the chunks with a hammer then file some to dust with a rasp then put it that on top of the pipe and set fire to it. Then do that again three more times, two Hail Mary's, one Our Father and then it'll burn, mostly."

[longburn]

Originally Posted by longburn

I can send you a can of the Christmas Cheer 2006 which I tried in that year and found it a good year so it should be great now if you like. Just let me know your postal info.

I got your message wigglybottom (you have got to put up your first name)Anyway,got your message,but I can't reply back to it yet,I don't have a PM option available to my knowledge.I don't think i've been a member long enough.
But this is my email if you want to send me your contact info.I have several cans and rarely smoke a pipe anymore so I can send a can of that and a few others I have for you to try.
bowman38271@aol.com

[Mad Hatter]

Originally Posted by Lord Wigglybottom

I really need to secure a good method for purchasing online (I won't get into the current complications).

Smokingpipes.com allows you to place your order online and then mail a check or money order..... pipes, tobacco or whatever. I've done it several times.

[sounds7]

Concerning the Tongue bite issue you are having. Tongue bite is not necessarily about heating the pipe too hot although that does do the job pretty good. It can also occur when the density of the smoke is too great in your mouth, too concentrated from smoking too quickly. My recommendation is to slow down and when you think you have slowed down enough slow down even more. Also if you feel the intensity of flavor getting too great in your mouth like your on the verge of tongue bite, put the pipe down for a few minutes, Then go back to it when you feel that sensation subside.

Hope that helps

[Lord Wigglybottom]

@Hatter - I did not know they did that! Much appreciated intel - thanks!

@sounds - The density of the smoke in my mouth? So basically just flavor overload on the tongue, like eating chips that are too strongly flavored or something too acidic? I gotta be honest about where I'm at with picking up flavors - I can get one, maybe two. This could be why I'm getting the cold bite (frost bite? ), simply because I'm not picking up the overabundance of "seasoning" in each sip.

To give you an idea of my smoking pace, last night's smoke was in a Missouri Meerschaum Country Gentleman bent. That took me an hour and a half almost to the minute from first char to having only ash in the bowl. Slower still?