Anyone ever win a pipe from "Coopersark"?

[KinnScience]

On ebay?

bidding seems a bit ... well, lets just say something got my attention. Anyone have experience bidding on his auctions?

[Mad Hatter]

He's got his followers

[plexiprs]

I've taken several nice Castello pipes from him. New, and unsmoked are my preference but a few monsters were lightly enjoyed. Like in all financial transactions, know what you are willing to spend and stick to it. Auctions can be iffy. Sometimes it seems that bidders will go crazy and pay more at auction then at a B&M or online retailer.

My experience says he provides accurate descriptions. Quality refurbishment and I do love that he never runs a Reserve. On some really, really high-end pipes (which I've no interest in) I've seen him start the bidding higher than zero. But, it is his business and livelihood.

I buy from him without reservation. But, I always recognize that his goal is to take my money, just like any retailer.

[nate560]

I have 3 of his pipes. IMO one of the better dealers on ebay. He has also sold a few pipes for me. Never a problem buying or selling. No problem doing business with him.

[KinnScience]

On this last castello ... there seemed to be evidence that he had someone "protecting" the price.

Naturally there is no way to prove such a thing, even with some of the "inside statistical data" that ebay monitors.

However, my father is an auctioneer (over 38 years) who owned a reputable auction house. He is long retired and since the advent of ebay, he's been a buyer/seller and somewhat of a "student" of ebay and all that entails. He's seen seen all kinds of bidding patterns, (as have I) .. protection/shill bidding etc.

When a bid is placed on a 7 day auction .. 2 days in ... and I come in and top it out by only $1.00... and it sits without challenge for over 3 days, that seems contrary to usual bidding patterns (though not unheard of). However, add to that the secondary bidder, monitoring only over the last 30 days: made 137 total bids on 115 items, nearly 30% being for Coopersark, well, those stats are extremely significant. Could it be a coincidence? Sure. But pretty damn unlikely. Maybe the bidder just went nuts over the last 30 days and bid on a bunch of coopersark items. But if the last 30 days accurately represent the bidding patterns of the secondary bidder, that would mean the guy bids on 30 items a month ... from one seller.

I've certainly bid on 30 items in a month. Heck, I went nuts and bought a lot of pipes off ebay at one time. I know how much time it took to bid on that many items ... and this was with multiple sellers... not just one.

Look, there could be multiple reasons for this .. sure. There are always coincidences and anyone could offer explanations that might seem reasonable. But given how the bidding progressed, and given the stats of the secondary bidder... also add to it the fact that they guy told me the pipe was from his own personal collection, I think it a reasonable assumption that he may have asked someone (or worse, regularly uses a network such as IRC to organize shill bidding.. yes, this exists and many high end sellers exploit this) to ensure the price was protected.

Take it FWIW. This type of thing is more common than many realize. Ebay uses all kinds of logarithms and other stat analysis tools to monitor this kind of thing, but the truth is that there really is no way to stop it. When it comes to making money, many retailers will "exercise all options" in order to protect the bottom line. It would shock some of you to know about some of the networks that have been created and utilized on IRC servers over the years. Everything from negotiation of hacked bank accounts and credit cards, drug traffic and other organized crime activities, to child *****graphy. (in undergrad, I belonged to an online group that owned and operated an IRC server... even when you own the hardware ... you cannot breach a private network on IRC.. it is a very covert avenue for communication)

For me, it is the principle. I completely understand if someone wants to protect something valuable. I don't fault anyone for that. I just don't like being played for "stupid". Is mr. Coopersark a good ebay seller? Sure. I have bought from him in the past as well. No complaints. But I do have questions about my last experience bidding. I have no wish to malign anyone. But I think that, as a group, we should look out for the interests of each other. I also think that we all need to be more aware of a practice that does exist, and wary of the potential desire to acquire our hard earned $$

[nate560]

Originally Posted by KinnScience

On this last castello ... there seemed to be evidence that he had someone "protecting" the price.

Naturally there is no way to prove such a thing, even with some of the "inside statistical data" that ebay monitors.

However, my father is an auctioneer (over 38 years) who owned a reputable auction house. He is long retired and since the advent of ebay, he's been a buyer/seller and somewhat of a "student" of ebay and all that entails. He's seen seen all kinds of bidding patterns, (as have I) .. protection/shill bidding etc.

When a bid is placed on a 7 day auction .. 2 days in ... and I come in and top it out by only $1.00... and it sits without challenge for over 3 days, that seems contrary to usual bidding patterns (though not unheard of). However, add to that the secondary bidder, monitoring only over the last 30 days: made 137 total bids on 115 items, nearly 30% being for Coopersark, well, those stats are extremely significant. Could it be a coincidence? Sure. But pretty damn unlikely. Maybe the bidder just went nuts over the last 30 days and bid on a bunch of coopersark items. But if the last 30 days accurately represent the bidding patterns of the secondary bidder, that would mean the guy bids on 30 items a month ... from one seller.

I've certainly bid on 30 items in a month. Heck, I went nuts and bought a lot of pipes off ebay at one time. I know how much time it took to bid on that many items ... and this was with multiple sellers... not just one.

Look, there could be multiple reasons for this .. sure. There are always coincidences and anyone could offer explanations that might seem reasonable. But given how the bidding progressed, and given the stats of the secondary bidder... also add to it the fact that they guy told me the pipe was from his own personal collection, I think it a reasonable assumption that he may have asked someone (or worse, regularly uses a network such as IRC to organize shill bidding.. yes, this exists and many high end sellers exploit this) to ensure the price was protected.

Take it FWIW. This type of thing is more common than many realize. Ebay uses all kinds of logarithms and other stat analysis tools to monitor this kind of thing, but the truth is that there really is no way to stop it. When it comes to making money, many retailers will "exercise all options" in order to protect the bottom line. It would shock some of you to know about some of the networks that have been created and utilized on IRC servers over the years. Everything from negotiation of hacked bank accounts and credit cards, drug traffic and other organized crime activities, to child *****graphy. (in undergrad, I belonged to an online group that owned and operated an IRC server... even when you own the hardware ... you cannot breach a private network on IRC.. it is a very covert avenue for communication)

For me, it is the principle. I completely understand if someone wants to protect something valuable. I don't fault anyone for that. I just don't like being played for "stupid". Is mr. Coopersark a good ebay seller? Sure. I have bought from him in the past as well. No complaints. But I do have questions about my last experience bidding. I have no wish to malign anyone. But I think that, as a group, we should look out for the interests of each other. I also think that we all need to be more aware of a practice that does exist, and wary of the potential desire to acquire our hard earned $$

If thats what you think just don't bid on his items or set a dollar amount your willing to pay and thats it. If you win great if you lose it oh well. I bought a new Ardor for 126.00 and a Castello hawkbill for 158.00. Anytime I can buy a pipe of that quality for that price im pretty happy. There are alot of other people selling pipes and what ever, if your not happy with anyone person or there products dont buy from them.

[David M]

First time I have seen his listing.
He has some beautiful pipes.

Buyer Beware is in effect all the time and always.
That never changes.

Full warranties and ability to return if desired is always nice but if thats not there, in the end, its all about your perceived level of happiness. If your happy paying $3,000 or $150 - it works.

[Mad Hatter]

Brian I don't think I'd blame the seller on this. If that situation happened often, with as many people as watch his auction, he'd have developed a reputation as a crook. Most likely IMO if there is something fishy going on it would be the owner of this lot of pipes that is to blame, ie - he has contracted coopersark to sell his pipes for him and is running up the bids on them to make sure he gets the price he wants. I don't buy expensive pipes on Ebay. The most I have ever spent on one pipe is $50. In my price range it wouldn't be unusual for an early bid to stand for a few days as you stated but for a more expensive pipe there does seem to be more traditional bantering bidding going on.

[plexiprs]

Originally Posted by KinnScience

On this last castello ... there seemed to be evidence that he had someone "protecting" the price. ......

If you have such a belief and also believe there is sufficient evidence to question the behavior then report it to ebay through the proper channels. As you said, they have means and methods of monitoring their sellers. They also have much greater information available to them then any seller or buyer does, with greater depth and detail.

I've been on ebay since 99 and believe in reporting to them any time I have the personal belief that something is up. I've done it and been proven right, as well as wrong. The members are what make the biggest difference.

[selleri]

Originally Posted by nate560

If thats what you think just don't bid on his items or set a dollar amount your willing to pay and thats it.

That's not the point, IMO. If the seller says there is no reserve, then there should not be.

[dj1340]

I have gotten a few pipes from him at a very reasonable price. I usually wait until the last 5 min to bid. Set what I'm willing to pay and walk away. All the items from him were just as described and if he has something I'm interested in, I would bid again.But then again I'm a frugal shopper, my wife says cheap but that sounds ......so cheap.

[selleri]

Originally Posted by dj1340

I usually wait until the last 5 min to bid. Set what I'm willing to pay and walk away.

That's actually the best way to handle any ebay auctions although 5 minutes might be too long time...you have chance to make another bid if it was outbid right away If the high-price was set correctly to own max price, bidding again is just stupidity. I usually try to make my bids with 1 minute or less in the clock, sometimes I'm too late but getting sniped by some other late bidder does not happen often.

[drastic_quench]

Originally Posted by selleri

That's actually the best way to handle any ebay auctions although 5 minutes might be too long time...you have chance to make another bid if it was outbid right away If the high-price was set correctly to own max price, bidding again is just stupidity. I usually try to make my bids with 1 minute or less in the clock, sometimes I'm too late but getting sniped by some other late bidder does not happen often.

Yeah, I don't get people who bid on items with DAYS left. They're not going to win it, and they're just jacking up the price.

[David M]

Originally Posted by drastic_quench

Yeah, I don't get people who bid on items with DAYS left. They're not going to win it, and they're just jacking up the price.

I guess they are thinking this.

"I need to show these other bidders that I am the Real Deal. Once I make a bid, they will see that they cant mess with me and they will just back the heck off this item. I will make them quiver in their pants. I will make them run and hide away under a rock never to come back out again after they see me and what I am willing to do. I am gonna kick some eBay a*s and make these guys wish they never bid on this item"

...or something similar.

[plexiprs]

Why wait? If you are willing to pay $200 and want to bid that on day #1, so be it. Some do, others wait till the end, some wait for the last seconds. It is all personal style or "feeling" that it works for them.

I have bid on the first day and never been outbid. I've bid my max with one second to go and got beat by a higher proxy bid. All personal preference and some make it a game.