Vacuum Sealing Mason Jars

[Z.Kramer]

I'd like to add my two cents into this discussion as to whether or not you need to vacuum seal your jars.

If you are jarring your tobacco in order to have it age, I would say your should not vacuum seal them, because the presence of oxygen is necessary for the aging process.

Now if you are jarring your tobacco and want the tobacco to remain at the exact state it is currently in (as far as condition and taste etc), then you should vacuum seal the jars. It will create a sort of state of suspended animation (for lack of a better term)

Now to create an excellent vacuum seal all you need to do is get the jars nice and hot, then screw on your air tight lids nice and tightly, and leave them somewhere relatively cool.

[Hermit]

I started pipe smoking less than a year and a half ago.
I have only been jarring tobacco for a year or so.
I use half pint jars. They go through the dishwasher and that's all.
I wash the lids seperately, because I fear the heat dry can dry out the sealing rubber.
I do not heat the jars, use any bleach, vacuum, tape, wax or voodoo.
The little microbes create their own vacuum.
Yesterday, I opened a jar of H&H Louisiana Red that I put up a year ago.
I had to pry the lid off..whoosh.

[uvacom]

Originally Posted by Z.Kramer

I'd like to add my two cents into this discussion as to whether or not you need to vacuum seal your jars.

If you are jarring your tobacco in order to have it age, I would say your should not vacuum seal them, because the presence of oxygen is necessary for the aging process.

Now if you are jarring your tobacco and want the tobacco to remain at the exact state it is currently in (as far as condition and taste etc), then you should vacuum seal the jars. It will create a sort of state of suspended animation (for lack of a better term)

Now to create an excellent vacuum seal all you need to do is get the jars nice and hot, then screw on your air tight lids nice and tightly, and leave them somewhere relatively cool.

Heating a jar, tightening the lid, and letting the jar cool will not create a true vacuum. It will just lower the pressure of the gases inside the jar relative to the external atmosphere. That will provide a good seal, as you say, but there will still be plenty of oxygen (and other atmospheric gases) inside so the tobacco will age in that case, which may or may not be desirable. Further, the heating process will probably stove the tobacco slightly, which also may or may not be a desired change.

For jarring tobacco, I think just using a clean (preferably sterilized), room-temperature jar & lid is best. In fact, as the microbes in the tobacco do their work they will consume oxygen and create a lower-pressure environment in the jar within some months anyway, so the seal is good. Some folks go an extra step and dip the lids in paraffin in order to provide a secondary barrier in case the jar's seal fails.

[Z.Kramer]

Originally Posted by uvacom

Heating a jar, tightening the lid, and letting the jar cool will not create a true vacuum. It will just lower the pressure of the gases inside the jar relative to the external atmosphere. That will provide a good seal, as you say, but there will still be plenty of oxygen (and other atmospheric gases) inside so the tobacco will age in that case, which may or may not be desirable. Further, the heating process will probably stove the tobacco slightly, which also may or may not be a desired change.

For jarring tobacco, I think just using a clean (preferably sterilized), room-temperature jar & lid is best. In fact, as the microbes in the tobacco do their work they will consume oxygen and create a lower-pressure environment in the jar within some months anyway, so the seal is good. Some folks go an extra step and dip the lids in paraffin in order to provide a secondary barrier in case the jar's seal fails.

With all due respect, I am not trying to start an argument here, but if the gases inside the jar are at a lower pressure than the atmosphere that is, by definition, a vacuum. This is the process used to jar foods, and will keep them unchanged for extremely long periods of time, but I admit, I have never used this method for tobacco. Also if you heat the jar then quickly pour in the tobacco and seal it, it is unlikely the heat will affect the tobacco at all.

I agree with you as far your recommended method of storing tobacco. I have a question though. Considering the law of conservation of mass, how can microbial gas consumption create a lower pressure inside a sealed jar?

[KevinV]

I did up a few more jars last night and one has already lost its vacuum. I think I'll stick with the tightly closed jars from now on.

[uvacom]

Originally Posted by Z.Kramer

With all due respect, I am not trying to start an argument here, but if the gases inside the jar are at a lower pressure than the atmosphere that is, by definition, a vacuum. This is the process used to jar foods, and will keep them unchanged for extremely long periods of time, but I admit, I have never used this method for tobacco. Also if you heat the jar then quickly pour in the tobacco and seal it, it is unlikely the heat will affect the tobacco at all.

I agree with you as far your recommended method of storing tobacco. I have a question though. Considering the law of conservation of mass, how can microbial gas consumption create a lower pressure inside a sealed jar?

Vacuum is the absence of matter, so it's only a vacuum if there are no (or practically no) atmospheric gases in the jar. A quick check of the dictionary will confirm this, wikipedia also provides a good explanation. Admittedly it's a difference of degree (one might casually refer to the condition of which we are speaking as a "partial vacuum"), but if somebody wants to vacuum-seal their tobacco (you gave a very good explanation of the pros/cons of doing so), heat canning is not a good way to do it because plenty of atmospheric gases will remain.

The law of conservation of mass is not a law of conservation of volume. The microbes consume the oxygen & some nitrogen (amongst other compounds), and excrete CO2 and other compounds. Not all of the oxygen or nitorgen consumed are excreted as gases, and CO2 is about 1.5 times more dense than air at STP, so as the CO2 content rises, the pressure decreases (since there is more matter per unit volume in CO2). All the while, the sum of the matter in the jar does not change.

[sounds7]

Originally Posted by KevinV

I did up a few more jars last night and one has already lost its vacuum. I think I'll stick with the tightly closed jars from now on.

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[RJpuffs]

The objective of the exercise is to maintain an "air tight seal"; i.e. no outside air goes in, and no inside air goes out. The presence of air within, and air tightness is required for proper aging - unlike cigars that need to be ventilated often to dispel the ammonia stench.

Negative pressure is mostly used for such seals, its the easiest to create and nature maintains it for you. If the contents of the container are at a lower pressure than the outside world, the outside will try to push its way in. A good seal (i.e. rubber gasket) will maintain the seal using this outside pressure. Heating the contents (or just the container) will result in hotter air inside when the seal is applied. As the contents cool, the air (as much as it may be) will contract, reducing pressure. Since the seal is air tight, the outside pressure maintains the seal. Foodstuff is cooked and immediately jarred to also kill off microbes/bacteria/etc in the same hot air sealing step. With baccy we want those little critters to live on.

Now put that container in an oven, or in the sun - and the contents will heat up and expand. When the inside pressure exceeds the outside air pressure, the seal will yield and "pop". Ergo the popped tins after spending a few days in a hot UPS truck. When you use a coin to pop open an Escudo tin, the leverage from the coin exceeds the internal pressure and the tin pops open. Thats why you can't just unscrew it open, your fingers lack the strength to overcome the internal negative pressure.

Class dismissed. Light up a bowl of Escudo now and ruminate

[dmkerr]

Originally Posted by RJpuffs

The objective of the exercise is to maintain an "air tight seal"; i.e. no outside air goes in, and no inside air goes out. The presence of air within, and air tightness is required for proper aging - unlike cigars that need to be ventilated often to dispel the ammonia stench.

Negative pressure is mostly used for such seals, its the easiest to create and nature maintains it for you. If the contents of the container are at a lower pressure than the outside world, the outside will try to push its way in. A good seal (i.e. rubber gasket) will maintain the seal using this outside pressure. Heating the contents (or just the container) will result in hotter air inside when the seal is applied. As the contents cool, the air (as much as it may be) will contract, reducing pressure. Since the seal is air tight, the outside pressure maintains the seal. Foodstuff is cooked and immediately jarred to also kill off microbes/bacteria/etc in the same hot air sealing step. With baccy we want those little critters to live on.

Now put that container in an oven, or in the sun - and the contents will heat up and expand. When the inside pressure exceeds the outside air pressure, the seal will yield and "pop". Ergo the popped tins after spending a few days in a hot UPS truck. When you use a coin to pop open an Escudo tin, the leverage from the coin exceeds the internal pressure and the tin pops open. Thats why you can't just unscrew it open, your fingers lack the strength to overcome the internal negative pressure.

Class dismissed. Light up a bowl of Escudo now and ruminate

Professor Puffs did it in the smoking room with the mason jar

Good explanation. Thanks!

[dmkerr]

Ok, next question - mostly on topic.

You've stored your baccy for the requisite number of years and now you're ready to start smoking it. Do you:

A) Smoke the crap out of it (in a big hurry) because once you break the seal, the tobacco starts turning to dust and fungus.
B) Smoke it at your leisure, retightening the seal after each bowl.
C) Remove it from the mason jar and place it in a different container.

Please provide the reasoning for your choice. Thanks in advance.

[sounds7]

Originally Posted by dmkerr

Ok, next question - mostly on topic.

You've stored your baccy for the requisite number of years and now you're ready to start smoking it. Do you:

A) Smoke the crap out of it (in a big hurry) because once you break the seal, the tobacco starts turning to dust and fungus.
B) Smoke it at your leisure, retightening the seal after each bowl.
C) Remove it from the mason jar and place it in a different container.

Please provide the reasoning for your choice. Thanks in advance.

To me it depends on the tobacco and its age. But assuming its a tobacco that goes down really fast then I smoke it before the taste is lost forever. This can be somewhat avoided at the start by separating the tobacco into smaller containers which all wouldn't have to be opened at the same time. take a look at these

Hexagon & Candle Jars - Specialty Bottle

Once a tin is opened (Or Bulk) I transfer the contents to jars like these.

[dmkerr]

Originally Posted by sounds7

To me it depends on the tobacco and its age. But assuming its a tobacco that goes down really fast then I smoke it before the taste is lost forever.

So, once you open a sealed tin, the tobacco starts a flavor reduction process?

[sounds7]

Originally Posted by dmkerr

So, once you open a sealed tin, the tobacco starts a flavor reduction process?

Not always. That depends on the tobacco as well. Virginias get better with age, burleys do not, Aromatics do not, Latakia blends get better in some cases but not to the extreme of the Virgina tobacco. Either way, I feel better protected in a sealed jar than leaving it in the opened tin because the chance of it drying up is far less because there is less air exchange.

[dmkerr]

Originally Posted by sounds7

Not always. That depends on the tobacco as well. Virginias get better with age, burleys do not, Aromatics do not, Latakia blends get better in some cases but not to the extreme of the Virgina tobacco. Either way, I feel better protected in a sealed jar than leaving it in the opened tin because the chance of it drying up is far less because there is less air exchange.

Sorry - I mistyped. What I meant was... you have a mason jar full of tobacco that you've stored for, say, 3 years. You then open it. I realize it stops aging but is there any harm in taking out a small portion and then resealing the jar? Shouldn't it be just as safe as it was? Or am I missing something?

[DSturg369]

A clean jar/lid combo on a mason-type jar will seal itself after a very short time, so I see no need to vacuum seal. I have many such jars stored and all have sealed well.