In defense of smokers

[indigosmoke]

Thought some of you might find this interesting. I found it from a link on the Sherlock Holmes Pipe Club of Boston newsletter. It's primarily about the scientific basis (or lack thereof) for anti-cigarette smoking efforts but contains a lot of info on smoking tobacco in general.

"In Defense of Smokers", by Lauren A. Colby / Table of Contents

[Cigary]

Great article,,,thx for the post.

[indigosmoke]

No problem. I was really surprised by some of the things he points out...like the old black lung they show you in school bs. I'm not surprised that most of the so called scientific evidence is bunk. I worked for the American Lung Association years ago and anti-smoking is definitely big business. But there really is a lot of good info in his articles...the stuff on how they fed water laced with carcinogens to rats genetically modified to get lung cancer in the 'study' that they use as evidence of a causal relationship between lung cancer and tobacco smoke. That seemed dubious enough to me. But when he follows with how they attempted to give lung cancer to these rats by exposing them to tobacco smoke but they failed...and these were rats genetically bred to be predisposed to lung cancer! Well that really blew my mind. Makes me wonder what other 'science' I've been taught that isn't really science at all. The final devastating point he makes is that since the scientific and medical communities have decided that lung cancer is principally caused by smoking and that if people just stopped smoking lung cancer would vanish there is currently very little research into what really causes lung cancer. I haven't read all the chapters of his book, but I'm going too.

[MarkC]

I have to be honest, I only got as far as the preface, and his discussion of HIV and AIDS set off my loon detector...

[indigosmoke]

Fair enough, but that doesn't mean the facts and studies he cites on tobacco are incorrect.

[Crazycoonass]

Wow, thats a real eye opening article and a good awnser to the american anti-smoking propaganda, its quite a long read but I recomend it.
I have to say though, I agree with not smoking in resturants and hospitals, theres nothing I hate more than sitting down to enjoy a nice ribeye and some a$$hole lights up a ciggeret at the next table and thats all I taste is the smoke, blah. But here in america its getting to where we cant smoke outside in some places and in my hometown of New Orleans, u can go to a drive-through and get a daquery with a kid in the car, but god forbid u light a cigarret while u do it.

[indigosmoke]

I agree with you on rest. and hosp. and such. Common courtesy because health implications aside tobacco smokes not everyone's cup of tea.

[FrayAdjacent]

While I too would not like to experience someone lighting up a stinky cigarette next to me at a restaurant, I think it's the business owner's decision what to allow and not to allow.

I find it odd when I go into a bar (I'm 32, mind you) and no one is smoking. It's just... wrong. Bars are supposed to be smoky. If you don't want to be somewhere that's smoky, you just DON'T go to bars.

[rrb]

While I too would not like to experience someone lighting up a stinky cigarette next to me at a restaurant, I think it's the business owner's decision what to allow and not to allow.

I find it odd when I go into a bar (I'm 32, mind you) and no one is smoking. It's just... wrong. Bars are supposed to be smoky. If you don't want to be somewhere that's smoky, you just DON'T go to bars.

That is the prime reason bars/pubs are closing. From lack of clients.

If you have a drink, even if it's just coffee (I mean real coffee, not coloured water), you probably want to follow with a smoke. Right?

[MarkC]

Originally Posted by indigosmoke

Fair enough, but that doesn't mean the facts and studies he cites on tobacco are incorrect.

I agree completely, it's just that it's hard for me to take psuedoscience and real science from the same person.

By the way, for the video generation, here's a cool Penn & Teller bit on the one of my favorite subjects, second hand smoke: Dailymotion - 104 Second Hand Smoke - Baby Bullshit - a People & Family video

[indigosmoke]

Great P&T vid. I saw them do a show a few years back and it was amazing.

[Crazycoonass]

No smoking in bars... yeah, Im glad we dont have that problem here in New Orleans, gawd I couldnt imagine haveing a drink in my hand without a good smoke in the other, lol in this situation though, Id have to go with a cigar, cant see tamping, relighting, and talking all at the same time with a good buzz on.

[Delsana]

I typed out a large statement, and then accidentally pressed the backspace key, sigh...

In short, while it's a good find, it's obvious he starts to base the style of "i'm right about this, so I'm probably right about all this as well" in his later statements. Although, while I wont' disagree that the health associations aren't exactly 100% truthful, it is moronic and naive to think for a second that all facts are debunked, or even lies in that regard, or that smoking is "healthy" in all or many forms, as we all know it isn't.

While multiple forms of tobacco may exist, those that directly are inhaled do indeed damage the tissue by tar and asphyxiated smoke, as well as damage and clot both the bloodstream, the lungs, the heart, the liver, and most CERTAINLY the kidneys (as they are the filter). Those that aren't inhaled or are treated more carefully with respect and knowledge well at hand; still do damage via the asphyxiated smoke (which can be managed if not over-indulged as cellular reparation does occur every night) as well as to the teeth, and throat.

However, this is all public knowledge which can easily be determined by running a full chemical make up test on both tobacco and the products used to partake in the smoking of it. I'm not trying to tell people to stop, but trying to debunk everything will never happen, and it's better to make mistakes, then to make excuses (and believe said excuses).

Edit:

On a side note I have to state that I've never really understood why people drank alcohol while smoking, aside from some wine that might enhance the flavor; the admission that water and nonalcoholic drinks enhance the flavor and texture much more do their compositions, is already widely known... at least to I.

Personally, I've always associated the high aficionados and those that respect the act properly, in a high esteem that generally knew exactly what they were doing, but didn't add all these things to it, simply focusing on the pleasure, relaxation, and camaraderie of it. Mmm, perhaps what I saw has changed...

[indigosmoke]

Good points...

However, the main thing I took away from it was not the fact that bad effects never happen, but that their occurance is widely overstated for political and economic reasons. Also that any studies that counter the politically correct wisdom are discounted or ignored.

As for whether or not tobacco is healthy or not it depends on how you define health. Perhaps smoking causes an increased chance of certain diseases, but the effects on the mental processes...stress relief etc, should also be considered.

I also think it is fair to be absolutely sure that the studies and scientific facts being used to decide public policy (such as the draconian laws on second hand smoke) be clear and without bias. Shall I really open up a can of worms here and mention global warming...or is it cooling...or is it warming...

[Delsana]

I've already done much research into Global Warming, and I firmly believe and know it's real, though not exactly to the speed people may be talking about in the economy, but it definitely is real.

However, there are things we could do, that we don't, to fix it and the issues of smoking (well okay in mass numbers smoking can deteriorate segments) and gasoline and what not, aren't the problems. It's the big buildings, the large waste, the water waste, everything.

Whether you like it or not, there is a tear in the Ozone layer that is gradually increasing over Alaska, and some other places.

On the topic of health, I don't agree with traditional smoking of cigarettes in any form, most of my family is dead due to it (as such now I am nearly the last remaining resident, and by far the youngest) and I already looked into their real cause and sure enough they all had truly weakened immune, and organ systems due to the continual smoking. In fact I had an uncle who died from over-indulgence of cigars, which is why I am very strict on the partaking of them and limit what is acceptable in my eyes to a weekly basis, not a daily basis. However, I also know the benefits of other forms of smoking, if not over-indulged, and while it isn't like Red-wine which can increase your defenses against cancer and liver damage, the permanent reduction of stress via arcolay signals, and the camaraderie that it brings (which the world needs more of) is acceptable to me and to many other as well, as long as it is treated with respect and doesn't simply become a fad or "thing to do".

I know not many people agree with me... but I like to think I envision the "grandeur" and "intelligence" that can be associated with it, of course I do admit I focus on it... and there I go rambling.

Regardless, that's my point.