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Ok, here's a question for you pipe pros.....

This is a discussion on Ok, here's a question for you pipe pros..... within the General Pipe Forum forums, part of the Pipe Smokers Forums category; Originally Posted by abcritt Matt, that looks awesome! Originally Posted by Perry72 That does look cool. Awesome job! It turned ...

  
  1. #16

    Wizard of the puff shire Gandalf The Gray's Avatar


     

    Re: Ok, here's a question for you pipe pros.....

    Quote Originally Posted by abcritt View Post
    Matt, that looks awesome!
    Quote Originally Posted by Perry72 View Post
    That does look cool. Awesome job!
    It turned out not half bad. I modified the tool I used a bit to give it a more chunky rustic look. If I can get my hands on some more cheap pipes I will try out some more, I have a great Idea on how to get a finer rustication on the rim, But I will have to wait on that. I will pick up some leather dye, and diamond paste to polish it up with. And probably hit it with a layer of carnauba wax, or maybe even Do Like Igor had done on one of his and lacquer it.

  2. #17

    Puffer Fish with some spikes iggy_jet's Avatar


     

    Re: Ok, here's a question for you pipe pros.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalf The Gray View Post
    It turned out not half bad. I modified the tool I used a bit to give it a more chunky rustic look. If I can get my hands on some more cheap pipes I will try out some more, I have a great Idea on how to get a finer rustication on the rim, But I will have to wait on that. I will pick up some leather dye, and diamond paste to polish it up with. And probably hit it with a layer of carnauba wax, or maybe even Do Like Igor had done on one of his and lacquer it.
    Mat,

    If you going to use carnauba wax on a rusticated pipe it will leave white residue from the wax in the grooves and the only way to get it out is to heat up the pipe with a heat gun, but then it will leave a mat finish on the pipe. lacquer will seal the wood completly including the gooves. Just don't try to lead it up in one application... thin coats work better.

    Also, what I have done on the laquered pipes is sand off the top of the pipe where you lite it and finished it off with carauba wax. My thought on that is when you light the pipe, laquer won't start burning and give off unpleasant taste and smell... Not sure if thats true or not, but that my thought... many large pipe manufacturers use laquer on all their production pipes and you don't hear much complaining about it.

  3. #18

    Wizard of the puff shire Gandalf The Gray's Avatar


     

    Re: Ok, here's a question for you pipe pros.....

    Quote Originally Posted by iggy_jet View Post
    Mat,

    If you going to use carnauba wax on a rusticated pipe it will leave white residue from the wax in the grooves and the only way to get it out is to heat up the pipe with a heat gun, but then it will leave a mat finish on the pipe. lacquer will seal the wood completly including the gooves. Just don't try to lead it up in one application... thin coats work better.

    Also, what I have done on the laquered pipes is sand off the top of the pipe where you lite it and finished it off with carauba wax. My thought on that is when you light the pipe, laquer won't start burning and give off unpleasant taste and smell... Not sure if thats true or not, but that my thought... many large pipe manufacturers use laquer on all their production pipes and you don't hear much complaining about it.

    Great info thank you Igor! I will go ahead and lacquer the pipe, Is there a particular brand you use and/or way you apply it?

  4. #19

    Puffer Fish with some spikes iggy_jet's Avatar


     

    Re: Ok, here's a question for you pipe pros.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalf The Gray View Post
    Great info thank you Igor! I will go ahead and lacquer the pipe, Is there a particular brand you use and/or way you apply it?
    No perticular brand, there are many available.
    I prefer spray, you can get it anywere even walmart, home depot or lowes... etc. Lacquer dries by process of solvent evaporation and you can add coats in less then 30 min apart with no sanding. There are lacquer paints or a clear coat, you want the clear coat (you need clear coat).

    I take a piece of paper towel and make a plug for the pipe bowl so not to get lacquer into it, same for the stem opening. Then I have a long scew driver that put the pipe onto through the pipe bowl. That gives me the ability to hold the pipe in one hand and spray can in the other. Two or three coats usually does the job to a high gloss finish.
    When you done, post some pics please.

    Also, if you plan on staining the pipe. I use alcohole based stain from Woodcraft, and if you plan on staining black it will be a two part process. First you will need to stain the pipe red, and then second coat of black. If you don't use a red stain pipe might not take true black sheen but more of a black/brown, or might need several applications of black to realy get into the pores.

  5. #20

    Wizard of the puff shire Gandalf The Gray's Avatar


     

    Re: Ok, here's a question for you pipe pros.....

    I couldn't resist, here is another small one I did...

    Before:





  6. #21

    Wizard of the puff shire Gandalf The Gray's Avatar


     

    Re: Ok, here's a question for you pipe pros.....

    After:












  7. #22

    Snuff-hound steinr1's Avatar


     

    Re: Ok, here's a question for you pipe pros.....

    I'm not a fan of modern laquers on pipe bowls. They seal the wood and prevent it "breathing". Modern polyurethane varnishes are impermeable to water - that's their appeal for many uses. They look great for a number of years but they tend to separate from the wood after a while and flake off. It's not a normal application for an impermeable varnish to be over hot, damp wood. But that's what a pipe is. Old fashioned shellac is water vapour permeable although it is surface water repellent. I'm never that sure about carnuaba wax. It appears to be a very hard wax that still allows the wood to breath. Without the abitilty to transpire moisture, all the hard work put into preparing briar is wasted and there is a risk that trapped water will make for a poor smoke. There are many tales of a poor pipe being rescued and turned into a great smoker by removal of it's shiny finish.

    It's to be remembered perhaps that laquer is a way of hiding flaws in briar (as is rustication). No pipe-maker uses a fantastic piece of briar for a heavily laquered or rusticated pipe willingly. It's an odd anomaly that rustication is a more expensive way of finishing a pipe than a smooth polish alone. But it's either that, use filler, or waste the briar entirely.

    I'd stain it and buff hard with carnuaba. The hard buffing will lighten the stain on the high points which can be very attractive. It's a nice looking pipe and IMO a shame to hide it under laquer.
    Last edited by steinr1; 08-17-2013 at 02:04 PM.
    "Never keep up with the Joneses. Drag them down to your level." - Quentin Crisp

  8. #23

    Snuff-hound steinr1's Avatar


     

    Re: Ok, here's a question for you pipe pros.....

    And I promise to spell LACQUER correctly in future...
    "Never keep up with the Joneses. Drag them down to your level." - Quentin Crisp

  9. #24

    Wizard of the puff shire Gandalf The Gray's Avatar


     

    Re: Ok, here's a question for you pipe pros.....

    Quote Originally Posted by steinr1 View Post
    I'm not a fan of modern laquers on pipe bowls. They seal the wood and prevent it "breathing". Modern polyurethane varnishes are impermeable to water - that's their appeal for many uses. They look great for a number of years but they tend to separate from the wood after a while and flake off. It's not a normal application for an impermeable varnish to be over hot, damp wood. But that's what a pipe is. Old fashioned shellac is water vapour permeable although it is surface water repellent. I'm never that sure about carnuaba wax. It appears to be a very hard wax that still allows the wood to breath. Without the abitilty to transpire moisture, all the hard work put into preparing briar is wasted and there is a risk that trapped water will make for a poor smoke. There are many tales of a poor pipe being rescued and turned into a great smoker by removal of it's shiny finish.

    It's to be remembered perhaps that laquer is a way of hiding flaws in briar (as is rustication). No pipe-maker uses a fantastic piece of briar for a heavily laquered or rusticated pipe willingly. It's an odd anomaly that rustication is a more expensive way of finishing a pipe than a smooth polish alone. But it's either that, use filler, or waste the briar entirely.

    I'd stain it and buff hard with carnuaba. The hard buffing will lighten the stain on the high points which can be very attractive. It's a nice looking pipe and IMO a shame to hide it under laquer.
    That is some great info Robert! I am on the fence here, I think I will do one pipe with carnuaba wax, and one with LACQUER to see what the difference is. Reading up on some pipe making forums allot of people are suggesting using wax in conjunction with a heat gun, melting the wax and then hand buffing with a soft brush spreading the wax evenly around the pipe. And then using a soft brush or cotton polishing cloth after to create a shine to it. I was curious, I have seen that using diamond paste will give that polished looked. Is it possible to use carnuaba wax, and then polish it with the diamond paste? Or would that cause issues with the layer or carnuaba wax?

  10. #25

    Puffer Fish with some spikes iggy_jet's Avatar


     

    Re: Ok, here's a question for you pipe pros.....

    We can argue over the point of finish on a pipe for ever. But, a pipe can not breaze after you have crated a proper layer of ash in the bowl. It's impossible...
    Once you "broke a pipe in" creating an ash in an bowl, it will only allow air flow from the opening to the stem. Any finish you might aply on the outside of the pipe is decorative.
    it might fade, soak into the wood with heat or burn off all together.. etc. But it has no effect on smoking of the pipe.
    You speak of shelack... well shelack and lacquer are essentallsy the same for the chemichal compossition. if any finish on the pipe effected it's smoking then none of the pipe would have any finaish on them. Please, take a look at some of the "great" pipe makers if the 20th century and see what they used for finishing on their pipes. You might be surprized when a pipe made by Bo Nordh is selling for $3000.00 plus is finished in laquer...

  11. #26

    Snuff-hound steinr1's Avatar


     

    Re: Ok, here's a question for you pipe pros.....

    Quote Originally Posted by iggy_jet View Post
    We can argue over the point of finish on a pipe for ever....
    And so we shall.

    Cake isn't impervious to water. It can and does absorb water. The difference between a truly impervious material and one that allows water vapour through it is like night and day. I've got a fair number of plastic bodied pipes and they smoke completely differently and even are said by the manufacturer to need a different packing technique because of that.

    Lacquer just means a paint finish that hardens by evaporation of the solvent alone. Shellac is indeed a lacquer. But it's a rather "poor" one by modern standards. It allows water vapour to pass. Polyurethanes are (probably - not sure) not technically lacquers as they (may) also harden by "chemical" means. However, the point is that these are impervious to water vapour. It does perhaps matter exactly what is used to finish an article. All "lacquers" are not the same.

    Empirically, the nature of the wood makes a difference to how dry a pipe smokes. Two outwardly identical pipes (both well constructed) can smoke quite differently. The obsession with perfect grain is a relatively modern thing. Blame Bo Nordh if you like. Barling - one of my favourite makes due to their smoking quality - paid very little attention to grain until they were forced by marketing pressures. They did, however, have two entirely different grades of wood regardless of their grain (their marketing puff did mention the "beauty of the wood", but the better grade is visually no different from some of the better cooking models). Ropp did similar. Again, if the wood became essentially isolated after a few smokes, all the expensive preparation of briar would not be needed. All the boiling, drying and careful aging is to remove all trace of sap and oils which taste foul. If cake was impervious, the wood could be used as harvested and we'd all just put up with the first few horrible smokes. Or we'd all smoke plastic pipes.

    I've never handled a $3000 (Very reasonable for a Bo Nordh, I understand) pipe or spoken to an owner of one. I believe a large proportion of the very "high-end" pipes are essentially collector pieces only. Their value is in the artistic and craft skills of the maker and the rarity, quality, and beauty of the materials. Their smoking properties are mostly untested (I've never seen a ""proper" estate Bo Nordh pipe offered - a used one) and essentially immaterial. I'd say that it's unlikely that someone who has spent upwards of $3000 on a pipe is going to tell anyone that it's rubbish. Which it probably isn't; construction bloody well better be perfect. (The few Bo Nordh images I have seen are of wonderful, perfect bits of briar smooth polished. Why paint that?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalf The Gray View Post
    I am on the fence here,
    As am I. I'm not a material scientist.

    I think I will do one pipe with carnuaba wax, and one with LACQUER to see what the difference is.
    Use a truly water and water vapour impervious one to really test the theory. But it may ruin that pipe...

    ...Reading up on some pipe making forums allot of people are suggesting using wax in conjunction with a heat gun, melting the wax and then hand buffing with a soft brush spreading the wax evenly around the pipe. And then using a soft brush or cotton polishing cloth after to create a shine to it. I was curious, I have seen that using diamond paste will give that polished looked. Is it possible to use carnuaba wax, and then polish it with the diamond paste? Or would that cause issues with the layer or carnuaba wax?
    Polishing the wood itself should put the shine on a pipe. Youi can put a high gloss on raw briar with enough work. Any further finish just gives a bit of protection (Carnuaba is HARD, much harder than briar - it prevents micro-scratches). Varnishes, paints and other finishes are cover-ups and should not be needed. At least not on a smooth finish. Perhaps rustic might need something to help prevent dirt accumulating. Something that allows water vapour to pass or it will affect the smoke and eventually peel off... Carnuaba does put on a nice final gloss. Carnuaba waxing should be (as far as I know, I'm not a professional...) the last operation. Best applied using an unstitched or stitched calico wheel. The stiffer wheel polishes harder if you want to soften a rustic finish very slightly while waxing. The wax tends to come as flakes. Melt a bit into a stick and apply it to the running wheel and then buff the pipe. I'd personally say that enough wax to need melting on the pipe is too much. It really just needs a lick of it. I'm without a spindle at home at the moment and it's vitually impossible to apply the wax by hand; the wax is rock hard.

    We're rather spoiled by silicone based polishes these days. In the UK car and motorcycle trade they are often refered to as "liquid bullshit"; they can cover a multitude of sins. Shiny, shiny, shiny. They have no place on a pipe.
    Last edited by steinr1; 08-18-2013 at 06:02 AM.
    "Never keep up with the Joneses. Drag them down to your level." - Quentin Crisp

  12. #27

    Elder Puffer Fish Leader MarkC's Avatar


     

    Re: Ok, here's a question for you pipe pros.....

    Quote Originally Posted by steinr1 View Post
    I've never handled a $3000 (Very reasonable for a Bo Nordh, I understand) pipe or spoken to an owner of one. I believe a large proportion of the very "high-end" pipes are essentially collector pieces only. Their value is in the artistic and craft skills of the maker and the rarity, quality, and beauty of the materials. Their smoking properties are mostly untested (I've never seen a ""proper" estate Bo Nordh pipe offered - a used one) and essentially immaterial.
    smokingpipes.com has used Bo Nordhs now and then. They are definitely smoked.
    ********.com

  13. #28

    Snuff-hound steinr1's Avatar


     

    Re: Ok, here's a question for you pipe pros.....

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkC View Post
    smokingpipes.com has used Bo Nordhs now and then. They are definitely smoked.
    Glad to hear it! I'd be nervous that I'd drop it
    "Never keep up with the Joneses. Drag them down to your level." - Quentin Crisp

  14. #29

    Puffer Fish with some spikes iggy_jet's Avatar


     

    Re: Ok, here's a question for you pipe pros.....

    Quote Originally Posted by steinr1 View Post
    Glad to hear it! I'd be nervous that I'd drop it
    I second that.
    Good old corn cob pipe is a good pipe for dropping.

  15. #30

    Snuff-hound steinr1's Avatar


     

    Re: Ok, here's a question for you pipe pros.....

    OK. I recant my heresy. Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

    I've had a bit of a nosey around in t'internet and found that Bo Nordh himself (really just a "hobbyist" apparently - a bloody good and profitable one) used a lacquer on at least his sand-blasted pipes, perhaps all. The blasts were apparently smooth pipes refinished on request for the German market; strange folk obviously. Seems to have been applied with a light touch - not a shiny finish; two thin, brushed coats, just enough to slightly darken the finish, seal the wood and prevent dirty finger marks.

    Begs the question (which is disputed in various posts and blogs) about briar pipes "breathing". I'm still a booster for the theory. Plenty of stories of horrible, wet smoking pipes being transformed by removal of their heavy-handed, glossy finish. The posts are silent on whether any other modifications were made to the pipes at the same time. Correcting of drillings and work on the stem entry can obviously (also?) make a huge difference.

    There are models of pipe which are heavily painted. White (and other colours?) gloss painted Kaywoodies for example, I believe. Has anyone smoked one of those?

    Sealing the inside of the bowl still seems to be an obvious fault to me. The wood would be unable to absorbed at all and would lead to a very wet smoke. Venturi pipes (made totally of plastic) smoke that way if not packed correctly - very loosely.

    Perhaps suitable, light finishes are porous enough to small molecules (water vapour) to allow pipe magic to continue working. Maybe absorbtion into the wood from the inside is sufficient to allow a pipe to "work" for several smokes before resting is needed to allow the wood to dry. Clearly, I have no idea. I do know from experience that some pipes have an almost miraculous ability to smoke dry over many bowls without rest. My experience is that those are ones that are simply finished as polished wood and no more.
    "Never keep up with the Joneses. Drag them down to your level." - Quentin Crisp

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