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Perhaps we might talk gun control objectively?

This is a discussion on Perhaps we might talk gun control objectively? within the Guns and Knives forums, part of the Everything But Cigars category; Let me start out by saying that I need everyone to promise me not to get emotional in this thread! ...

  
  1. #1

    Maturing Puffer Fish


     

    Perhaps we might talk gun control objectively?

    Let me start out by saying that I need everyone to promise me not to get emotional in this thread! I'd love to have an intelligent debate or discussion about gun control.

    all the major arguments I've heard against gun control don't really stand up for me, unless I'm missing something.

    i think that to own a gun, mandatory background cheks should be performed even for private sales, and registration of the owner should be mandatory. Further more I think a gun license should be mandatory, I.e. some way of proving that you are competent and safe in handling a gun.

    I guess I'll leave it there for now and await some informative responses.

    bob.

  2. #2

    Alpha Puffer Fish


     

    Re: Perhaps we might talk gun control objectively?

    My argument with you would be the United States Constitution - please start there - I insist you explain why you do not approve of it - the United States Constitution - "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.."
    By the way - an argument that something has changed and the Constitution is no longer valid - well, waiting for that argument - there are reasons it was written that way - please go through an explanation why any part is now valid or any part is invalid - I'll check back in OH - ten years are so - you should be about one tenth of the way through...

  3. #3

    "Witchdoctor" gasdocok's Avatar


     

    Re: Perhaps we might talk gun control objectively?

    This thread has potential to go off track VERY quickly.

    Let's keep in mind that politics are not to be discussed here so as to ruffle as few feathers as possible.

    I think we could probably have a calm and honest debate but there is a very high likelihood that this threads gets locked at the slightest hint of political arguments.

    That said, my arguments are more logistical.

    How exactly are you going to institute a law that requires background checks for private sales? Force individuals to do background checks on other individuals? That is a HUGE invasion of privacy because it is not MY right to know everything about YOUR background. In order for you to purchase my gun, I don't need to know if you are behind in child support payments, have outstanding parking tickets or once got busted in college for weed. None of that is relevant but would probably show up in a background check somewhere. What that mandate would actually do is force ALL gun sales to be done through licensed FFL dealers or "black market." Private citizens would no longer be able to sell their own property to another private citizen and a case could probably be made for the unconstitutionality of that. Regardless, most criminals will just buy their guns on the secondary or black market because that's where many are getting them now. The black market would just expand to include not just the usual criminals, but average citizens who just want to sell some stuff they no longer need or maybe they need a few bucks to pay some bills.

    As far as mandatory training goes. I agree with you. If you want to purchase a handgun I think it is reasonable to require a basic safety class on how the thing works and how not to shoot your family members by accident.

    Registration of the owners is a very touchy subject. They did that in Europe a couple of years before they came back to all those registered individuals and took away their guns (sorry, mandatory buy backs). Any more discussion on that particular subject would become political so I'll stop there.

    Hope this was non-emotional and intelligent enough for ya.
    Man I wish I had something witty and inspiring to say. Or even a URL to share.

  4. #4

    Alpha Puffer Fish


     

    Re: Perhaps we might talk gun control objectively?

    "Perhaps we might talk gun control objectively?".

    Objective - "not influenced by personal feelings, interpretations, or prejudice; based on facts; unbiased"
    Subjective - "placing excessive emphasis on one's own moods, attitudes, opinions"

    Would you please change the title to: "Perhaps we might talk gun control placing excessive emphasis my own moods, attitudes, opinions?*

    Sorry - I cannot make your requested promise that concerns the United States Constitution - you are truly naive to request such a promise.

  5. #5

    Twerking ain't for Smurfs Packerjh's Avatar


     

    Re: Perhaps we might talk gun control objectively?

    And here I thought we was gonna define gun control...

    For me (well trained I might add) gun control is using both hands...

    That's all I have to say about that!
    Just one little Smurf against the world....I feel sorry for you World! BOOM, suckas!

  6. #6

    Alpha Puffer Fish


     

    Re: Perhaps we might talk gun control objectively?

    Quote Originally Posted by gasdocok View Post
    This thread has potential to go off track VERY quickly.

    Let's keep in mind that politics are not to be discussed here so as to ruffle as few feathers as possible.

    I think we could probably have a calm and honest debate but there is a very high likelihood that this threads gets locked at the slightest hint of political arguments.

    That said, my arguments are more logistical.

    How exactly are you going to institute a law that requires background checks for private sales? Force individuals to do background checks on other individuals? That is a HUGE invasion of privacy because it is not MY right to know everything about YOUR background. In order for you to purchase my gun, I don't need to know if you are behind in child support payments, have outstanding parking tickets or once got busted in college for weed. None of that is relevant but would probably show up in a background check somewhere. What that mandate would actually do is force ALL gun sales to be done through licensed FFL dealers or "black market." Private citizens would no longer be able to sell their own property to another private citizen and a case could probably be made for the unconstitutionality of that. Regardless, most criminals will just buy their guns on the secondary or black market because that's where many are getting them now. The black market would just expand to include not just the usual criminals, but average citizens who just want to sell some stuff they no longer need or maybe they need a few bucks to pay some bills.

    As far as mandatory training goes. I agree with you. If you want to purchase a handgun I think it is reasonable to require a basic safety class on how the thing works and how not to shoot your family members by accident.

    Registration of the owners is a very touchy subject. They did that in Europe a couple of years before they came back to all those registered individuals and took away their guns (sorry, mandatory buy backs). Any more discussion on that particular subject would become political so I'll stop there.

    Hope this was non-emotional and intelligent enough for ya.
    If the mods want to close the thread it would be in response to the OP as intentionally inflammatory...

  7. #7

    Sons of Apathy Hermit's Avatar


     

    Re: Perhaps we might talk gun control objectively?

    Outside of a firm grip, my favorite gun control
    is stiff mandatory sentences for gun crimes.
    Punish the criminals, not the citizens.
    THE RENT IS TOO DAMN HIGH!

  8. #8

    Evolving Lead Puffer Fish Steel Talon's Avatar


     

    Re: Perhaps we might talk gun control objectively?

    I say
    *Stick to the Constitution...
    *Make our Sheriffs to protect our 2A interests
    *Enforce current gun laws
    *Readily identify those that propagate gun violence in our society (criminal and gang elements)
    *Acknowledge that the government is not for its citizens to own firearms (Im not talking conspiracy issue either but provable instances, Fast and Furious,Ruby Ridge,Waco)
    *Acknowledge that some of those with in our ranks who support 2a are considered by many to be in the Lunatic Fringe ie. Alex Jones etc.We need to reel that opinion in a bit.
    *Stop villifying guns and law abiding gun owners.
    *Look to the millions of law abiding firearms owning citizens and mimic what we do when it comes to safety, the hobby, and the preservation of life, liberty, and happiness.
    *Stop allowing the mentally ill to be released back onto the streets. Re-instate mandatory commitments to menal health facilities for treatment;instead of relying on prisons to become mental heath treatment.
    Take your time...Don't live to fast..Troubles will come and they will pass..

  9. #9

    True Derelict Fuzzy's Avatar


     

    Re: Perhaps we might talk gun control objectively?

    Gun control? Having a good understanding of the double tap and the ability to effect it, instead of a spray and pray attitude.
    I don't always drink beer,,,
    OK, yes I do

  10. #10

    Maturing Puffer Fish


     

    Re: Perhaps we might talk gun control objectively?

    I'm sorry guys, I guess everyone's emotions are a little high to discuss this like we do so many other interesting topics. I know this is close to your heart, totally understandable. Maybe a little naive of me to expect people to divorce themselves from their emotions.

    I'll ask a mod to close this up ASAP. Please let this be the last post in thus thread guys.

    All the best.

  11. #11

    Young Puffer Fish Macrophylla's Avatar


     

    Re: Perhaps we might talk gun control objectively?

    Bobajob,

    I'll submit to a required gun license as soon as they start requiring licenses to get pregnant.

    One gun is a whole lot less dangerous than one person of questionable morals, ethics, or social contribution.

    Take our current commander-in-chief, I assure you over the next 10-years his signature legislation will kill outright, and dramatically shorten the lives of millions. Find me a single firearm that comes anywhere close.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobajob View Post
    Let me start out by saying that I need everyone to promise me not to get emotional in this thread! I'd love to have an intelligent debate or discussion about gun control.

    all the major arguments I've heard against gun control don't really stand up for me, unless I'm missing something.

    i think that to own a gun, mandatory background cheks should be performed even for private sales, and registration of the owner should be mandatory. Further more I think a gun license should be mandatory, I.e. some way of proving that you are competent and safe in handling a gun.

    I guess I'll leave it there for now and await some informative responses.

    bob.

  12. #12

    Full grown Puffer Fish J. Drew's Avatar


     

    Re: Perhaps we might talk gun control objectively?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobajob View Post
    Maybe a little naive of me to expect people to divorce themselves from their emotions.

    No just naive to ask people to divorce their common sense!
    "A fine cigar should fall apart in your hands like a neurotic woman!" - Fernando

  13. #13

    Full grown Puffer Fish TopsiderLXI's Avatar


     

    Re: Perhaps we might talk gun control objectively?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobajob View Post
    Maybe a little naive of me to expect people to divorce themselves from their emotions.
    Your are pretty full of yourself, aren't you? Im curious to what arguments against gun control "don't stand up" for you? All the statistics showing areas with high gun control also have higher crime and murder rates doeskin stand up for you? Maybe i am just being naive in thinking you would divorce your emotions from logical thinking.
    Here, have a cigar. Light it up and be somebody.

  14. #14

    Chest Beating Pack Leader [OT] Loki's Avatar


     

    Re: Perhaps we might talk gun control objectively?

    How about we talk about mental health care reform as that's what really needs to happen. Making more laws won't stop people from violating them. Banning high cap this and "assault" that won't really help much. Guns aren't the problem here, my gun is sitting out and has been for years and it's never once shot me or my tv or whatever, the problem is the people using them.

    The second problem is the media. if we're going to reform the second we need to trim some fat off the first. Media used to be "get it right" now it's "get it first and if it's wrong who cares". We need to kill these 24hr news stations, unless you were there to see a guy shoot someone else, or see the puck go in the net or whatever I don't want to hear some half researched sound clip that's going to be wrong anyway! Secondly STOP GLORIFYING THE PEOPLE WHO COMMIT THESE ACTS! Do you show the drunk naked guy who runs on the field no! why not? oh you DON'T WANT TO ENCOURAGE OTHER DRUNK NAKED IDIOTS! screw this i'm going to watch hockey

  15. #15

    Full grown Puffer Fish TopsiderLXI's Avatar


     

    Re: Perhaps we might talk gun control objectively?

    Quote Originally Posted by [OT] Loki View Post
    How about we talk about mental health care reform as that's what really needs to happen. Making more laws won't stop people from violating them. Banning high cap this and "assault" that won't really help much. Guns aren't the problem here, my gun is sitting out and has been for years and it's never once shot me or my tv or whatever, the problem is the people using them.

    The second problem is the media. if we're going to reform the second we need to trim some fat off the first. Media used to be "get it right" now it's "get it first and if it's wrong who cares". We need to kill these 24hr news stations, unless you were there to see a guy shoot someone else, or see the puck go in the net or whatever I don't want to hear some half researched sound clip that's going to be wrong anyway! Secondly STOP GLORIFYING THE PEOPLE WHO COMMIT THESE ACTS! Do you show the drunk naked guy who runs on the field no! why not? oh you DON'T WANT TO ENCOURAGE OTHER DRUNK NAKED IDIOTS! screw this i'm going to watch hockey
    You're exactly right. The media also tries to tell us the second amendment was made with hunters in mind and that no hunter needs an assault rifle. WRONG! The second amendment was made as a safety net in case the government ever tried to get rid of it and it intended the citzens to have the most powerful weapons they could get their hands on to stop it!
    Here, have a cigar. Light it up and be somebody.

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