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Gun Legislation; Homes with guns and childern

This is a discussion on Gun Legislation; Homes with guns and childern within the Guns and Knives forums, part of the Everything But Cigars category; The only problem is that lets take drinking for an example, an enlisted member of the military under the age ...

  
  1. #16

    Evolving Lead Puffer Fish RETSF's Avatar


     

    Re: Gun Legislation; Homes with guns and childern

    The only problem is that lets take drinking for an example, an enlisted member of the military under the age of 21 cannot purchase even beer, but they can go to war and give their county their all.

  2. #17

    2B1 ASK1 Hammerhead's Avatar


     

    Re: Gun Legislation; Homes with guns and childern

    Quote Originally Posted by RETSF View Post
    The only problem is that lets take drinking for an example, an enlisted member of the military under the age of 21 cannot purchase even beer, but they can go to war and give their county their all.
    This one always stuck in my craw, and I dislike it as much today as I did when the drinking laws changed. It's a promethean hypocrisy that we expect a young man to die for his country, but he can't drink a beer in it.

    [SIZE=2]"Following the path of least resistance is what makes rivers, and men, crooked."[/SIZE]

  3. #18

    More, more, more


     

    Re: Gun Legislation; Homes with guns and childern

    Quote Originally Posted by RETSF View Post
    The only problem is that lets take drinking for an example, an enlisted member of the military under the age of 21 cannot purchase even beer, but they can go to war and give their county their all.
    Yep, I have a big problem with that myself. So did my father: the day I got home from Army basic (Ft. Jackson), my dad picked me up at the airport and said, "you're 18, you're obligated to die for your country if we go to war, so I'll buy you whatever alcohol you want until you can buy it legally yourself." All of a sudden, we had a mutual respect that outstripped what had been up to that point a more traditional father-son dynamic. Subsequently, he was the first person to get me drunk on bad whiskey

  4. #19

    no..not THAT Dave! 68TriShield's Avatar


     

    Re: Gun Legislation; Homes with guns and childern

    Quote Originally Posted by RETSF View Post
    The only problem is that lets take drinking for an example, an enlisted member of the military under the age of 21 cannot purchase even beer, but they can go to war and give their county their all.
    and die too...
    Dave...
    Smoke what *YOU* like,like what you smoke

  5. #20

    Block Watcher j6ppc's Avatar


     

    Re: Gun Legislation; Homes with guns and childern

    Amendment II
    A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.


    To me this reads like "members of the militia" have the right to keep and bear arms. Funny how seldom the second amendment is quoted in its entirety.

  6. #21

    2B1 ASK1 Hammerhead's Avatar


     

    Re: Gun Legislation; Homes with guns and childern

    Quote Originally Posted by j6ppc View Post
    Amendment II
    A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.


    To me this reads like "members of the militia" have the right to keep and bear arms. Funny how seldom the second amendment is quoted in its entirety.
    Your interpretation suffers from scholarship on the issue. We all - meaning CIVILIANS - are members of the Militia. It is NOT relegated to a standing army, or the National Guard, which would not come into existence for another one hundred twenty-five years or so after the 2nd Amendment was written.

    The 2nd Amendment is a PERSONAL right, as are the others, such as freedom of speech, of assembly, of religion, and so on.

    I have not just a little experience in this matter, but less time than knowledge, so I'll leave it to my other BOTLs to set everyone straight on this.

    [SIZE=2]"Following the path of least resistance is what makes rivers, and men, crooked."[/SIZE]

  7. #22

    Huge Puffer Fish packed with spikes Diesel Kinevel's Avatar


     

    Re: Gun Legislation; Homes with guns and childern

    Im so glad the antis are trying to protect us from........ohh wait they arent protecting us from anything except the bill of rights...
    May the road rise up to meet you.May the wind be always at your back.May the sun shine warm upon your face;the rains fall soft upon your fields and until we meet again,may God hold you in the palm of His hand.

  8. #23

    Evolving Lead Puffer Fish Hoplophile's Avatar


     

    Re: Gun Legislation; Homes with guns and childern

    Quote Originally Posted by j6ppc View Post
    Amendment II
    A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.


    To me this reads like "members of the militia" have the right to keep and bear arms. Funny how seldom the second amendment is quoted in its entirety.
    "I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."
    — George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on
    Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788

    "Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom? Congress shall have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American ... The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the People."
    — Tench Coxe, 1788.
    Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. - C.S. Lewis

  9. #24

    HOT for HILLARY!! AAlmeter's Avatar


     

    Re: Gun Legislation; Homes with guns and childern

    Wonderful...this fine piece of feel good should be almost as effective at reducing crime as the initiative to have forced crime-reduction prayers said to the Flying Spaghetti Monster every morning at 9:32 EST.

    Lets do our best to make sure this is equally as successful at getting passed.
    -Adam

    Cram it! I do my own thing!
    ??

  10. #25

    Grog Wench TTgirl's Avatar


     

    Re: Gun Legislation; Homes with guns and childern

    Quote Originally Posted by muziq View Post
    Representative Lee is from Texas' 18th district, a poor district in Houston with many challenges, not the least of which is gang activity.

    Real question in my mind about this proposed legislation was that in my skimming through it, I didn't see any mention of an exception for military service members, i.e. for those who enlist at 18 and whether or not they have some sort of "automatic" exception to this proposed legislation...or did I miss it in the legalese?
    It may fall under temporary transfer or employment. I'd have to go back and see what the clauses proposed for amendment are presently.

    And I can hear those gang members policing each other now. "Hey bro - under 21? No f-in' gun..."

    OK, sorry for the sarcasm, but come on. Ms. Jackson-Lee can't be so naive as to think that a law like this is going to be a deterrent to gang members.

    ---------------
    [SIZE="1"]How to remove images from posts, avatars, and signature lines: [/SIZE][SIZE="1"]CLICKY[/SIZE]
    [SIZE="1"]When life gives you lemons - grab the tequila and the salt.[/SIZE]

  11. #26

    Evolving Lead Puffer Fish oddball's Avatar


     

    Re: Gun Legislation; Homes with guns and childern

    Quote Originally Posted by j6ppc View Post
    Amendment II
    A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.


    To me this reads like "members of the militia" have the right to keep and bear arms. Funny how seldom the second amendment is quoted in its entirety.
    "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state" is the justification clause, "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed" is the rights clause. Many state constitutions have justification clauses covering such freedoms as speech, press, right to a trial, etc. "The right of the people" also appears in the 1st Amendment; shall we assume that this also applies to the militia only? Of course not. James Madison, considered the author of the Bill of Rights wrote the Bill of Rights was "calculated to secure the personal rights of the people". He never disqualified the 2nd Amendment from this statement.

    As Hammerhead pointed out, the National Guard was created in the early 1900s, not 1789. And hardly a militia in the true sense of the Founding Fathers, since they envisioned the militia to be apart from a standing army (Army National Guard is a branch of the U.S. Army, the Air National Guard is part of the U.S. Air Force). In the days of the creation of the Bill of Rights, "well-regulated" did not mean govt. regulated; it meant well-behaved, disciplined, or trained.


    The Constitution preserves the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation...where the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms. -James Madison
    What country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms. -Thomas Jefferson
    That the said Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of The United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms. -Samuel Adams
    And my favorite:
    Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom." "By calling attention to 'a well regulated militia,' the 'security' of the nation, and the right of each citizen 'to keep and bear arms,' our founding fathers recognized the essentially civilian nature of our economy. Although it is extremely unlikely that the fears of governmental tyranny which gave rise to the Second Amendment will ever be a major danger to our nation, the Amendment still remains an important declaration of our basic civilian-military relationships, in which every citizen must be ready to participate in the defense of his country. For that reason I believe the Second Amendment will always be important.
    -John F. Kennedy
    "Information doesn't kill you"- Frank Zappa

  12. #27

    An Original Latino ResIpsa's Avatar


     

    Re: Gun Legislation; Homes with guns and childern

    Quote Originally Posted by j6ppc View Post
    Amendment II

    A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

    To me this reads like "members of the militia" have the right to keep and bear arms. Funny how seldom the second amendment is quoted in its entirety.
    Jon, keep thinking along those lines.

    There are those who have mistaken beliefs regarding the 2nd amendment, and the SCOTUS has never definitvely stated what the 2nd protects. In fact, the only case the SCOTUS ever heard regarding it was United States v. Miller. and in a nutshell, this is what they said:

    ''[i]n the absence of any evidence tending to show that possession or use of a 'shotgun having a barrel of less than 18 inches in length' at this time has some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well- regulated militia, we cannot say that the Second Amendment guarantees the right to keep and bear such an instrument. Certainly it is not within judicial notice that this weapon is any part of the ordinary military equipment or that its use could contribute to the common defense.''7

    emphasis added by me.

    Here is a link in it's entirety explaining the concept further.

    http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/c...n/amendment02/

  13. #28

    Ann Coulter's Cabana Boy Corona Gigante's Avatar


     

    Re: Gun Legislation; Homes with guns and childern

    All I can say is that I'm glad there was nothing in the Bill of Rights about the citizens’ right to drive his horse & buggy around not to be infringed, otherwise there’d be no driving test, no seat belts, and wing-nuts on every corner protesting against stop signs.












    Just kidding, guys! [size=1](Please don’t shoot me!)[/size]
    "The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter."
    ~Winston Churchill

  14. #29

    More, more, more


     

    Re: Gun Legislation; Homes with guns and childern

    Quote Originally Posted by TTgirl View Post
    And I can hear those gang members policing each other now. "Hey bro - under 21? No f-in' gun..."

    OK, sorry for the sarcasm, but come on. Ms. Jackson-Lee can't be so naive as to think that a law like this is going to be a deterrent to gang members.
    We have no way of knowing that representative's mindset, short of hearing it directly from her mouth in an unedited fashion. I referenced her district and its challenges to illuminate her potential perspective--and that of the constituents who live, vote, and share their opinions there. However any of us feel about this legislation, it would do all of us some good to keep in mind that individual representatives have the responsibility to propose legislation that is responsive to their constituents as well as to the entire country, and that might very well be the nature of her proposed legislation. The info on her district offers insight, but does not warrant me or anyone else assuming anything about that representative or her intentions.

  15. #30

    No longer a community member. King James's Avatar


     

    Re: Gun Legislation; Homes with guns and childern

    Quote Originally Posted by Hammerhead View Post
    That matters not one whit. Gang members have little to no concern for laws, and anyone who's done their own research into the gun control debacle in America will tell you that in almost a half century and 22,000 laws both federally and on a state level, they've collectively had little to no impact on crime. In fact, gun control has the inverse effect of inhibiting law abiding citizens from redacting crime in partnership with law enforcement.

    Furthermore, there shouldn't be any exemption for military. The concept of the 2nd Amendment was that civilians were to have access to the same type of contemporary arms as the military. You go down a dangerous path when only politically connected segments of the population get to have guns.

    As the citizens of:
    Germany
    Russia
    China
    VietNam
    Rwanda
    Darfur...

    And so on, throughout history.
    Awesome point man, Anti-gun laws do nothing to stop the people they are intentended for...if anything it encourages them. If a criminal wants a gun they will get it, they dont give a rip about the laws. The punk 15-18 year old kids going around with guns and shooting people are all cowards...you think they will be so quick to pull out a gun if they think that the person they are going to pull it on might be carrying as well? I would agree 100% with getting rid of carrying laws if someone could GAURANTEE me that ALL guns were off the street...but until that happens damnit I should have the right to defend myself.. and thanks to my wonderful Governor here in WI I don't have that right...and we have one of the highest crime rates in the country in certain parts of this state. Coincidence? I think not.

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