Drinking Age?

[King James]

Originally Posted by taltos

I would support lowering the drinking age to 18 with the presentation of a Military ID card. If you are old enough to kill and be killed, you are old enough to drink alcohol. I went to school in New York State for my last two years of high school and the drinking age was 18 at that time (late '60's). I saw less problems then with 18 year olds than I see with 21 year olds now. I think that the reason that these college presidents are in favor of lowering the drinking age is so that they do not have to check for age at college functions and fraternity parties.

interesting thought..... if they don't lower the drinking age for all, I think this is a good alternative.

I'd like to see the drinking age go to 19. 19 would at least keep it out of high school (legally, HS kids will still get it from others) But that way police could use less resources busting college parties that are going to happen regardless.

[mosesbotbol]

Drinking age should be 18 like the rest of the world.

Regulating what we have done since Adam & Eve is futile.

We live in a puritan society in USA and every time we try to regulate morality it comes back to haunt us in either worse behavior or added crime.

Don't want kids to drink - Start parenting them; don't pass it off to the government.

[mosesbotbol]

Originally Posted by rack04

I agree with many of your points but my main concern is drunk driving. Now don't get me wrong even when I was 21 years old I drove even when I shouldn't have. I just feel that you mature so much between 18 and 21. I would hate to see the decision making abilities of an 18 year old be even more clouded.

18 year old's are already drinking, why make them criminals? If you drive drunk, you should be punished; 18 or 81...

Why do we assume as a society in the USA that we are so inept? Time for us as a nation to take off the training wheels and catch up to the rest of western civilization.

Why does everyone assume they can determine how mature someone else is?

In the USA, issues that are "important" social issues like the drinking age, defining marriage, abortion, not many even care about for most the western world (outside USA); never mind about deciding who is going to our leader based on their opinions on the subject...

[AAlmeter]

Prohibition simply does not work. It creates an underground, where neither government's law nor society's control.

I've spent a lot of time working/socializing in bars and private house parties (I'm one of those rare well paid, overweight male strippers ) and I can guarantee that an 18 year old at a bar with a fake ID drinks and behaves with much more responsibility than the same 18 year old crammed into a frat house basement with a couple kegs of PBR.

[AAlmeter]

Originally Posted by mosesbotbol

Don't want kids to drink - Start parenting them; don't pass it off to the government.

[tnip23]

The reason the college presidents support this is to rid themselves of any liability, pure and simple it's about $$. There is a certain hypocrisy to allowing voting rights and military service at 18, but considering how in this country we treat drinking as completely voboten until we reach a magic age, I don't see changing the legal age as having any effect on binge drinking. Parents talking to their kids about drinking and even introducing a little watered down wine with dinner at younger ages(as is done in many italian and french families)would have more of a positive effect than simply lowering the legal age.

[Seanohue]

Whatever we do, it won't change anything. Madurolover was right with the comparison between European and American drinkers: our culture has a completely different opinion about how we handle alcohol (source: every college movie ever made). So if we do lower it, I think we may see people act more responsibly, but it will take a generation to do so, since the culture will take awhile to adapt to the changes. The first year or so of this would be rough: there will be a spike in drunk driving/binge drinking but it should go back to current levels in 5 years, and maybe a noticeable reduction in 7?

[madurolover]

Originally Posted by Seanohue

Madurolover was right

That may be the first time I have ever heard this.

[gvarsity]

I disagree whole heartedly. This isn't about money or liability I do believe it is about safety and oversight. Most binge drinking on college campuses occurs off campus even if they are only across the street. It happens at house parties and fraternities which are private organizations. Universities in general are highly intolerant of visible drinking in dormitories due to the liability issue. So usually the only hit the University takes is a PR hit. Even if the student returns to student housing and dies on campus as long as the activity took place off campus they are very unlikely to be held liable.

For the record very few Universities sponsor any official events involving alcohol even for faculty let alone for students. Sports and other events are all done through special events divisions and are not considered sponsored by the University in the same way a Christmas party or retirement homecoming party etc... might be. You are either in a managed facility like a stadium or union that operates like a bar or there is not alcohol at official sponsored functions and that is for liability reasons.

Unmonitored binge drinking does however lead to a lot of other health and safety issue for the general student population including fights and sexual assaults. Not to say these things don't happen in bars but bars are much more likely to call the police and ems in emergencies. There will likely be sober people in attendance on staff to assess and manage dangerous situations. If bars are held liable for serving obviously intoxicated patrons they will cut of said patrons limiting the level of intoxication for many.

The reality is an unregulated house party is a disaster waiting to happen and I can say this from experience. Particularly when organizers are afraid of contacting the police if an emergency were to occur.

It also eliminates the drink as much as you can whenever you can mentality because you can drink whenever you want. It gets to be no big deal within 18 months at the outside IMO of being able to have a beer whenever you want. This makes it 54 months and really teaches kids to believe the way you drink is to binge drink.

Now lowering the drinking age won't eliminate unregulated house parties or binge drinking but they will provide attractive alternatives for socializing with alcohol in such a way to noticeably impact the crime statistics on and around college campuses. It will also create a much less hostile relationship between students and LEO's.

IMO the 21 year old drinking age was misguided. I'm in favor of raising the level of accountability for your actions while intoxicated and for providing to minors while at the same time reducing the drinking age. Either you are a grown up at 18 or you are not.

Regardless the 21 year old drinking age unnecessarily creates a very dangerous environment in areas with a large concentration of 18-20 year olds.

[stfoley]

When I was in middle school, I wrote an essay on this that made newspapers in my area.

Basically I made note about drinking ages around the world and how often alcohol related police cases or medical incidents are reported, how drunk driving or public intoxication is seen as a culture, teenage psychology and a touch of reason.

My stance was this: No 16 year old drivers...18 will be the driving age. However at 16 people should be able to buy beer or wine (no liquor until 21). This gives two years for police and friends/family to spot problem drinking behavior as well, which may give the community a leg up on nipping problem drinkers in the bud.

Alcohol is no more evil than any other substance on this earth, it's just how we choose to use it, or abuse it that causes problems for those around us.

Face it, we've already decided a 16 year old is responsible enough to handle a multi-thousand pound piece of heavy machinery (what a car technically is)...yet people have to be 18 to operate a forklift, which has a far lower potential for harm than a car...so the 16 year old driving age actually makes little sense from that viewpoint. I feel most parents that argue to keep it there are either traditionalists or are sick of driving their kids around (I can understand that).

Thing was, in the house I grew up in, I was allowed to drink at age 13, but only in parental presence. I was also expected to make mature decisions (and was dealt with harshly for not doing so). So when I got older, I really didn't see the big deal in getting hammered. Sometimes I did (when I was staying at that place for the night only), but most of the time I called it after a few beers anyways.

That's the thing....if drinking isn't a big deal, then teens won't treat it as such...but we Americans make drinking such a big deal that we have "21 parties", and the such....this just encourages it.

[ca21455]

Drinking irresponsibly and putting someones Else's life at risk should be dealt with swiftly and severely. In my opinion this is overlooked by the frenzied age debate. There are irresponsible drinkers of all ages. Younger drinkers do cause more problems due to immaturity and their social situations tend to place them in harms way.

My biggest concern has always been if you can draft someone at 18 then they should not be limited in their freedoms.

[gvarsity]

Originally Posted by stfoley

When I was in middle school, I wrote an essay on this that made newspapers in my area.

Basically I made note about drinking ages around the world and how often alcohol related police cases or medical incidents are reported, how drunk driving or public intoxication is seen as a culture, teenage psychology and a touch of reason.

My stance was this: No 16 year old drivers...18 will be the driving age. However at 16 people should be able to buy beer or wine (no liquor until 21). This gives two years for police and friends/family to spot problem drinking behavior as well, which may give the community a leg up on nipping problem drinkers in the bud.

Alcohol is no more evil than any other substance on this earth, it's just how we choose to use it, or abuse it that causes problems for those around us.

Face it, we've already decided a 16 year old is responsible enough to handle a multi-thousand pound piece of heavy machinery (what a car technically is)...yet people have to be 18 to operate a forklift, which has a far lower potential for harm than a car...so the 16 year old driving age actually makes little sense from that viewpoint. I feel most parents that argue to keep it there are either traditionalists or are sick of driving their kids around (I can understand that).

Thing was, in the house I grew up in, I was allowed to drink at age 13, but only in parental presence. I was also expected to make mature decisions (and was dealt with harshly for not doing so). So when I got older, I really didn't see the big deal in getting hammered. Sometimes I did (when I was staying at that place for the night only), but most of the time I called it after a few beers anyways.

That's the thing....if drinking isn't a big deal, then teens won't treat it as such...but we Americans make drinking such a big deal that we have "21 parties", and the such....this just encourages it.

Some nice points. The issue of driving age is important as well. Due to the issue of urban sprawl driving is a necessity of life and teens have some of the most varied schedules unlike adults who usually go to work and home. Teens have school, activities, sports, clubs, work, friends etc... With the amount of miles a lot of suburban kids have to travel without any real public transportation options it becomes a full time job for parents to run their kids around. It would require some real changes in one of these factors to effectively raise the driving age to 18 without serious opposition. I definitely think it should be harder and more expensive for teens to get a license and it should be treated as a privileged that is revoked for things like being ticketed for drinking, truancy, possession reckless driving etc... I think they would be much less cavalier about both driving and violating some of these other laws if losing their license until they turn 18 was a real consequence.

Lowering the drinking age will not eliminate binge drinking or dangerous behavior while drinking. It will make it more transparent and less a forbidden fruit issue. Like it was said anybody of any age can and often do make poor decisions about and while drinking. The issue the Universities are talking about is being able more easily and safely manage students and alcohol issues since all of the issues surrounding alcohol use are magnified when you have large concentrations of un-supervised young adults learning how to navigate new and technically pending freedoms.

[Opusfxd]

All very good points here. If I may, it has been mentioned the maturity levels of an 18 year old are in question. I'd like to say that it is my opinion as a bunch of coddling over hugging parents that have allowed them to become this way. As I look back over the decades I see younger and younger people doing more and more mature things in life and acting as such. I think that this may be due to they used to be held accountable for their actions and had to stand on their own two feet.

Now days it's ridiculous what is going on. I used to go as a Cub Scout to camp and shoot .22's, now I ask about it and am told it's not safe scouting. Who stopped paying attention? If I was younger and tried driving and texting, I wouldn't be driving any more. I won't even go to the drinking and driving thing, I probably wouldn't be here typing this.

In summary my point is, start making the kids today more responsible from the get go and they'll develop the maturity along the way to handle these great responsibilities.

Sorry if I got off topic a bit.

[BigVito]

didn't read the thread but am for lowering the age to 18. they already drink

[andrewsutherland2002]

Originally Posted by BigVito

didn't read the thread but am for lowering the age to 18. they already drink

They are not mature enough to drink, agreed, but they are old enough to die for our country. I think the drinking age should be lowered to the age of 18 only if you have served in the US military.