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OB1 Stogie · 12-13-2007, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joed

the whole idea that the steroid situation should impact the hall of fame is puzzling to me.

Baseball hadn't put any rules in place to say that they were prohibited. The management didn't take any action to verify suspected players. The team trainers didn't say anything seemed unusual or exeptional about the results of the training and conditioning. The fans didn't make a fuss about what was obvious to anyone with 2 eyes.

So, all in all - I don't think that there should be such a big issue.

Let me ask you - How do you feel about Lawrence Taylor and the football hall of fame - he played most of his games under the influence of cocaine and was an admitted heavy user in spite of NFL, national and international laws. Isn't that more serious than what the baseball players did with everyone's implied consent.

Couldn't agree more...all this has done is open up a box that MLB didn't want opened. The Bonds witch hunt has created a mess and now they have no idea what to do.

burninator · 12-13-2007, 08:54 PM

Lot of pitchers on that list...just sayin.

ComicBookFreak · 12-13-2007, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burninator

Lot of pitchers on that list...just sayin.

Sure are. Pandora's Box has been opened. Let's see what else comes out.

I do wonder if this could cause enough friction between MLB and the Players Union to cause another strike.

CBF

burninator · 12-13-2007, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ComicBookFreak

Sure are. Pandora's Box has been opened. Let's see what else comes out.

I do wonder if this could cause enough friction between MLB and the Players Union to cause another strike.

CBF

Never understood the people who argued that a pitcher wouldn't use steroids because there was little potential benefit. We often forget that one of the primary benefits of roids is accelerated healing, something a pitcher would find especially useful. Emergence of the closer, anyone?

NCRadioMan · 12-14-2007, 12:42 AM

The list isn't surprising to me except for Wally Joyner. I always thought he was one of the least athletic looking players, ever.

taltos · 12-14-2007, 06:49 AM

I am shocked that Nomar i not on the list. As a Boston fan I saw him grow into the Mighty Hulk and quite a few of his injuries were consistent with too much muscle mass for his frame. Another set of names that would not have surprised me would have been any starting catcher in the league for the injury healing factor. I did wonder if Varitek was on them as he is built like a rock and outside of the broken elbow, has had few injuries. Glad that he is not on the list though.

ComicBookFreak · 12-14-2007, 10:21 AM

Jose is implicating A-Rod in steroid use now and says many others were not named in the report. I personally believe what Jose is saying that more players used. If Jose is just shooting of his mouth and there is no truth to this, then why have none of the people he has said used sued him for slander?

It's funny to watch how people who were blasting Bonds for his use have suddenly grown silent when some of their teams players have been outed.

Quote:

Jose Canseco: A-Rod got off hook

BY MARK FEINSAND
DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER

More than 80 players were named in one capacity or another in the Mitchell Report, but Jose Canseco was certain there would be at least one more name in the document: Alex Rodriguez.

Canseco, who was one of the players named by Sen. George Mitchell in the report, told the Fox Business Channel he was surprised not to see A-Rod's name in the report.

"All I can say is the Mitchell Report is incomplete," Canseco said. "I could not believe that (Rodriguez's) name was not in the report."

Efforts to reach Rodriguez on Thursday night were unsuccessful. He did appear on the "CBS Evening News with Katie Couric," where he said of the report: "These are guys that I play with. They're my teammates, friends, people that I respect, people that I play with every day. If anything comes of this, (I) would be extremely disappointed. I mean it would be a huge black eye on the game of baseball."

A-Rod wasn't the only player missing, according to Canseco, who tried to attend Mitchell's press conference at the Grand Hyatt on Thursday, only to be turned away by MLB officials since he was not a member of the media.

"It's laughable," Canseco said of the list, which included such stars as Roger Clemens, Andy Pettitte, Barry Bonds and Miguel Tejada. "I heard the report, I saw the list of players and there are definitely a lot of players missing. I don't know what they accomplished or what they are trying to prove."

The rest of the article.....http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ba...ff_hook-3.html

Very interesting. Is A-Rod gonna take any action against Canseco for this or is he gonna try to lay low so no heat gets on him?

CBF

Edit: A question I have is with all the pitchers being implicated, why has Randy Johnson's name not come up yet? He got better in the later part of his career and just happened to be in both NY and AZ when the 'roids and HGH were at both clubs. I hope I am not the only one that thinks Randy may have used something. I was also surprised to see David Justice's name but no Ron Gant. Also, absent from the report were Brady Anderson and Albert Belle, which was also surpising to me.

joed · 12-14-2007, 10:47 AM

An interesting article I read talked about the integrity of the "evidence" that Mitchell had for his report. Interestingly enough - not a single bit would have ever been heard in a court room..

The article sort of said that without the heresay evidence of a convicted felon, Mitchell wouldn't have had anything at all.

Bud Selig was laughable

Mitchell's report should have put significant blame for the situation on the office of the commissioner and his first recommendation should have been to find an effective leader that is willing to serve something other than his own best interest.

ComicBookFreak · 12-14-2007, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joed

Bud Selig was laughable

Mitchell's report should have put significant blame for the situation on the office of the commissioner and his first recommendation should have been to find an effective leader that is willing to serve something other than his own best interest.

I think this is the most important thing here. Selig imo turned a blind eye to the use of performance enhancers. He is as much to blame for this as anyone. He didn't care that they were being used when baseball was struggling after the strike. Steroids may have saved baseball as crazy as that is to say.

Finding an effective leader who wasn't so self serving would have been a good thing for baseball and still would be. Selig should resign for allowing this to get so out of control on his watch, the whole time he was just worried about one thing...MONEY.

And I don't think any of the players records should be taken off the books. With so many in the league doing some type of drugs how could you seperate the users from the clean people. It will be interesting to see if this effects the health of players over the next 10-15 years. How many will suffer life threatening or shortening illnesses from the use?

CBF

Alpedhuez55 · 12-14-2007, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ComicBookFreak

Very interesting. Is A-Rod gonna take any action against Canseco for this or is he gonna try to lay low so no heat gets on him?

CBF

My guess is that A-Rod lays low. He may make some public attacks, but he is not the most liked person in the game. And someone could rat him out. He has a lot of former teamates on that list. And if one of them is driven out of the game my the report, I am sure they will not hesitate to throw A-Rod under the bus.

Look at the 50 HR club. From 1903 to 1995 a player hit for 50 or more HR only 18 times in a single season. From 1977 to 1994 only Cecil Fielder did it in 1991. Since 1995 that has been done 23 times. I think anyone on that list since the 90s has got to be considered suspect.

Addiction · 12-14-2007, 12:40 PM

I don't really follow baseball but I'm pretty sure that ARod is clean. He has bulked up a touch but nowhere near say a Bonds, McGuire, Sosa level so I am quite a bit less suspicous of him.

PadronMe · 12-14-2007, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpedhuez55

My guess is that A-Rod lays low. He may make some public attacks, but he is not the most liked person in the game. And someone could rat him out. He has a lot of former teamates on that list. And if one of them is driven out of the game my the report, I am sure they will not hesitate to throw A-Rod under the bus.

Look at the 50 HR club. From 1903 to 1995 a player hit for 50 or more HR only 18 times in a single season. From 1977 to 1994 only Cecil Fielder did it in 1991. Since 1995 that has been done 23 times. I think anyone on that list since the 90s has got to be considered suspect.

While Arod could very well be on some sort of drug but the pictures you posted of Arod are from when he was 18-19 years old and late twenties. Most men are still growing through the mid twenties.

A few reasons HR numbers are up
1. Players are stronger. Not because of steroids but because better understanding of nutrition and a much greater emphasis on training since the 80's.
2. The new ballparks are built for HR's. HR numbers up and so are ERA's.

Not denying the drugs at all but there is more to it.

The easy solution to this is to take a drug tax from the players and set up random Olympic or Tour De France type testing. Scrap the joke of a policy they've got now.

And lastly, Bud has got to go.

etw926 · 12-14-2007, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PadronMe

While Arod could very well be on some sort of drug but the pictures you posted of Arod are from when he was 18-19 years old and late twenties. Most men are still growing through the mid twenties.

A few reasons HR numbers are up
1. Players are stronger. Not because of steroids but because better understanding of nutrition and a much greater emphasis on training since the 80's.
2. The new ballparks are built for HR's. HR numbers up and so are ERA's.

Not denying the drugs at all but there is more to it.

The easy solution to this is to take a drug tax from the players and set up random Olympic or Tour De France type testing. Scrap the joke of a policy they've got now.

And lastly, Bud has got to go.

A-Rod's numbers have been consistent from his rookie year on. There is no reason to suspect that he is using anything.

Alpedhuez55 · 12-14-2007, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PadronMe

A few reasons HR numbers are up
1. Players are stronger. Not because of steroids but because better understanding of nutrition and a much greater emphasis on training since the 80's.
2. The new ballparks are built for HR's. HR numbers up and so are ERA's.

There are other contributing factors too. The season is longer, Expansion has spread the talent pool, they also lowered the mound since the 60s. But those numbers are just too dramatic.

If it is nutrician & training, why haven't wee seen the same dramatic leaps in records in other sports? Why is there is no 8 second hundred meter dash or sub 2 hour marathon? Because Track and Field has a testing program.

Most of the recent entries in the 50+ club, are on the Mitchell Report list. And I think just about all the players who are not are suspect. It has everything to do with Steroids. The 85 named is just the tip of the iceberg.