Barry Bonds

[mosesbotbol]

Originally Posted by ComicBookFreak

I am going to Say is I am a Bonds Fan. He has NEVER tested positive for the juice. And no matter how big your muscles are you still got have the hand eye coordination to hit the dang ball.

Neil Entwistle didn't get caught killing his family and said he didn't do it, so that must make him innocent...

[ComicBookFreak]

Originally Posted by NGuay

I don't think anyone thinks Barry Bonds isn't talented. He was a hall of famer before the roids. He is one of the best players ever. But the crazy home run numbers he put up after he added the 50 lbs of muscle and inflated his head, all in his late 30s, may have had something to do with the roids. Knowing what Henry Aaron had to go through while breaking that record and then seeing a "cheater" break that record would be sad. I'm a fan of baseball, I played baseball, and oh yeah, you can shut the f up.

Every hear of a pitcher named Gaylord Perry. He cheated many times AND iT WAS PROVEN. But he is still one of the games best ever. And a hall of famer. Should he be if he cheated? Also a man named Ty Cobb, a known racist,and "dirty" player who was known to sharpen the metal spikes on his cleets so he could jam them into the player trying to tag him out? This is cheating. But he remains in the HOF. But to this day no one has [SIZE="3"]PROVEN[/SIZE] Barry ever used steriods. So why is he run down by so many? I think envy for one. most anyone out there 4 years ago would have loved to see Barry play for them, I bet.

OK guys let's keep this discussion civil and not tell each other to @#$%. We are just discussing this.

CBF

[Stogiefanatic182]

Originally Posted by NGuay

I don't think anyone thinks Barry Bonds isn't talented. He was a hall of famer before the roids. He is one of the best players ever. But the crazy home run numbers he put up after he added the 50 lbs of muscle and inflated his head, all in his late 30s, may have had something to do with the roids. Knowing what Henry Aaron had to go through while breaking that record and then seeing a "cheater" break that record would be sad. I'm a fan of baseball, I played baseball, and oh yeah, you can shut the f up.

thats all you have to go by is speculation about roids, speculation is it period. Yea your right about Hank Aaron having to go through a hell of a lot for breaking the record and what he did was great for the game of baseball. If Bonds is someday proven to be guilty of roids then Ill be the first to say he wouldnt be deserving of the record but until that day happens, hes still legit in my book. So what if he hates the media, I wouldnt like them either, day in and day out talking about stupid sh*t, speculating about this and that. If he doesnt want to talk to the media he doesnt have to. Manny Ramirez never talks to the media and nobody crawls up his ass and goes apesh*t calling him a bad person. How long have you played the game and been around it?

[ComicBookFreak]

Originally Posted by mosesbotbol

Neil Entwistle didn't get caught killing his family and said he didn't do it, so that must make him innocent...

Hey Moses many have said Lance Armstrong was blood doping. He said he didn't and has never been proven to have. So does that make him guilty or Innocent?

CBF

[Stogiefanatic182]

Originally Posted by ComicBookFreak

Every hear of a pitcher named Gaylord Perry. He cheated many times AND iT WAS PROVEN. But he is still one of the games best ever. And a hall of famer. Should he be if he cheated? Also a man named Ty Cobb, a known racist,and "dirty" player who was known to sharpen the metal spikes on his cleets so he could jam them into the player trying to tag him out? This is cheating. But he remains in the HOF. But to this day no one has [SIZE="3"]PROVEN[/SIZE] Barry ever used steriods. So why is he run down by so many? I think envy for one. most anyone out there 4 years ago would have loved to see Barry play for them, I bet.

OK guys let's keep this discussion civil and not tell each other to @#$%. We are just discussing this.

CBF

What he said mother fuc*er!!!!

[NGuay]

Originally Posted by Stogiefanatic182

What he said mother fuc*er!!!!

That was cute.

You're the one telling us to shut up because we haven't played baseball and we're just media stooges. I gave Bonds his respect, but I don't want him to beat Aaron's record. Also, he admits to using steroids, but says he thought it was flax seed oil.

How long have I been around baseball? Are we going to have a contest now about who played baseball the longest? Next is it going to be who had the highest batting average between us? :s

Stay classy San Diego

[SeanGAR]

Don't be daft, y'all.

Bonds says he didn't know what some mysterious clear cream was.

"Barry Bonds testified to a grand jury that he used a clear substance and a cream given to him by a trainer who was indicted in a steroid-distribution ring, but said he didn't know they were steroids, the San Francisco Chronicle reported Friday. Bonds told a U.S. grand jury that he used undetectable steroids known as "the cream" and "the clear," which he received from personal trainer Greg Anderson during the 2003 season. According to Bonds, the trainer told him the substances were the nutritional supplement flaxseed oil and a pain-relieving balm for the player's arthritis."

It doesn't matter whether or not Bonds knew what he was getting (more on that later), he admitted to using something that was KNOWN to be a designer steroid.

According to government attorneys, Olympic sprinter Tim Montgomery testified that Conte used flaxseed oil containers to send "the clear" to athletes. BALCO founder Victor Conte has identified the designer steroid THG as "the clear." A testosterone-based ointment was identified as "the cream."

So there is absolutely no fuggin question that he took steroids and likely more. Now I ask you ... here is a guy who is anal about his health .... he's going to rub on just any damned cream his trainer tells him to? He's not going to notice the effects of roids? Whatever.

He has used illegal performance enhancing drugs for at least 6 years. He would have started dropping down in performance by then if it weren't for the roids. He is stronger and faster with the roids .... that doesn't help with homers?

That man is an ass ... an embarassment to all of baseball, and a dick-head. Wouldn't surprise me to see him with an achilles injury this year ... roids have a way of coming back and biting you in the ass.

[Thurm15]

Look,we all know plenty of Baseball players have taken Steroid's over the past 10 yrs and probably longer. Guy's like Brady Anderson, who would have been so so at best in the big league's became star's and other's like Palmeiro, who was already a good ball player and extended that greatness in to his twilight are good examples. Then you have the guys like Jason Giambi's Brother Jeremy, who probably wouldn't have made it past AA, never mind acutually make a big league roster without Juicin. Finally, the Guy's who became Baseball "Gods" on this stuff: Bonds, Sosa and Mcgwire. In my opinion, they sold them selves to the Devil for Baseball immortality and got caught. All are Damaged goods. Barry was a shoe in for the HOF before the Roids.He Did not need that stuff but just couldn't resist. His Career will forever be tarnished and he knows it. That's why he'll easily pass Ruth's record (for spite) and call it a career. Probably before the All-Star Break. He's got nothing left to play for after that. Oh, and stop bickering over this chit fella's it ain't worth it!

[floydp]

I had orange juice for breakfest..

[ukyfan]

I agree with most of you guys. I hope he is one short of The Babe's number. Bonds has talent but I really hate the way he acts. I think it will be a sad day in baseball when he passes Babe Ruth.

[mosesbotbol]

Originally Posted by ComicBookFreak

Hey Moses many have said Lance Armstrong was blood doping. He said he didn't and has never been proven to have. So does that make him guilty or Innocent?

CBF

That's a tough one because cyclists go through so many tests (he is actually the most blood tested athlete in the world), and so many people wanted to find him guilty that either he's clean or three steps ahead of the tests. I don't see how someone could pass so many tests for a much larger scope of drugs, lower thresholds, and pass every time. I can imagine how lax the baseball drug test- the ones that got it are. If they held baseball and football to cycling drug testing scrutiny, there would be no leagues left...

I'd say he's innocent, but I thought Tyler Hamilton was innocent... Bonds on the other hand have shown outward signs of Steroid use and his negative attitude towards media & fans hurt his credibility.

Honestly, both cases are similar, but my own biases point the finger at Bonds.

[Fat Old Sun]

Originally Posted by ComicBookFreak

180-200 walks a year Steroids don't help Hand eye.

Steroids do not help hand eye coordination... directly.

It is not the strength to blast the ball out of the stadium that players are seeking from steroids. Anyone who follows baseball knows that every one of those men on the field are capable of taking one for a ride if they get a hold of the right pitch. The difference is finding that pitch and being able to jump on it. Hand speed is what gets you not only home runs, but walks as well.

The stronger you are, the faster you can get that bat around. When you have the ability to get the bat around faster than other players, you have the advantage of waiting longer on the pitch. That fraction of a second allows you a better chance to determine speed, location, and break, not only increasing the odds that you will hit the ball, it increases the odds that you will lay off of a bad pitch and take more walks.

For all of those people in denial about their favorite players abusing illegal drugs to obtain an unfair advantage over other players (kind of sounds like cheating when you say it that way doesn't it?) if you ever get the chance to meet one of them, ask them what part of their work out regimen was responsible for creating those rediculously overdeveloped jaw muscles that makes the Body by Balco boys look like they could crush golf balls with their teeth.

Innocent until proven guilty? Yes, but the signs of steroid use are too obvious in some cases. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, chances are...

[Insano]

To me anyone who says in this day and age that is going to break records that have stood for so long like the home run record that Bonds already broke and probably Ruth and maybe Aaron's record and says he wants to disappear afterwards is bad for the game

I mean c'mon even as a fan of Bonds, wouldn't it tick you off that one of your favorite players just broke a record as important as Aaron's home run record and then disappeared off the scope!!!

I mean seriously I could see Bonds breaking Aaron's record and if the Giants weren't in playoff contention, retiring right afterwards, it wouldn't surprise me at all, and what really ticks me off is at that point it would prove he was just doing it out of spite, just to shut everyone up about it.

Definitely not a hero for the game or a good example for my kid or anyone else who hopes their kid plays baseball and learns about teamwork and the joy of stepping out on the grass in spring and not just winning or playing the game to make money or break all kinds of records.

I'll give it to you, Ruth was a drunk we all know that, but who is identified with the game more, not only that but any adult baseball fan who knows that would still jump at the chance to get a Ruth baseball card for example or a bat or ball signed by Ruth, I think just about any of us would and possibly it is just that the public loved him so much mostly because of his relationship with them and with the media at the time despite him being such a drunk ( besides wouldn't showing up to a game drunk make your hand speed slower, maybe a test is in order )....

I'm just saying the points about the steroids are moot, its about the attitude because you are right it is difficult in this day and age to dislike a baseball player because they have taken steroids, there are just so many and there is not and probably will never be any definitive proof that they took or were aware they took steroids

Just my opinion and as we all know opinons are the like a$$ holes.... every body has one

[Stogiefanatic182]

The reason Ruth was a national hero was because he came at the right time. Baseball was coming out of obscurity and became the national pastime at the turn of the 20th century. America was coming off a victory in WW1, the economy was booming and here comes this larger than life, beer drinking, fat man who can hit a baseball 400ft. Nobody before him was even putting up 20 home runs. He was hitting more home runs than teams combined. The game of baseball back in 1920 was different from baseball in 2006. In 1920 Babe Ruth never had the press barking down his neck, they never made big discussions over his weight or his boozing. He could go down the streets naked if he wanted and nobody would think anything of it. Todays players are under imense amount of pressures from the media, the fans, their teammates to go out day in and day out, play day games after night games, hit .300 with 45hr, and 120rbis and earn their high ass salaries. In order to keep up with the grind of playing 140 or so games out of the 162 they take proten pills and other various muscle reparing things. Now I know Bonds said he took a creame that he didnt know was roids but if your paying a guy who you trust to get you something that is going to make you feel better and play better you would probably take it. Granted Bonds has a bad attitude, but he doesnt owe anyone anything. His job is to go out and play the game of baseball and earn his paycheck.

[mosesbotbol]

Originally Posted by Stogiefanatic182

Granted Bonds has a bad attitude, but he doesnt owe anyone anything. His job is to go out and play the game of baseball and earn his paycheck.

One could easily argue that his job extends beyond just playing the game of baseball. A players are also a focual points of the team and league, and off field conduct is often stipulated in their contracts; so it's more than just playing the game.

Bonds could've been such a larger-than-life, epic player if he had the attitude and class. He'll retire as just a record book entry with a tainted history.