Tour de France

[Hammerhead]

Originally Posted by Charles

Great race! According to the talking heads Landis has won the Tour and has only to take his Victory tour of Paris. I guess that the doping accusations will start to surface now.

Well, that didn't take long, now did it???

Landis Denies Cheating to Win Tour
Updated 9:46 PM ET July 27, 2006

Floyd Landis says he didn't cheat to win the Tour de France, he doesn't know why he tested positive for high testosterone and he's sure he can clear his name. Even if he does, the American cyclist said, the disgrace of doping will probably follow him forever.

What a bunch of whining, sissy, sore losers those French are. I'm willing to bet if a European had won, nobody would be saying anything.

[hoosier]

An interesting excerpt from an article on cyclingnews.com

"But even if the B sample confirms the A result, Landis is not necessarily guilty of taking an illegal performance enhancing drug to boost his testosterone. Some riders can prove that they have an elevated Testosterone/Epitestosterone (T:E) level, if they undergo an endocrine test performed by a credible doctor. Landis said he will use Spanish doctor Luis Hernández, who has helped other riders prove a high T:E count. "In hundreds of cases, no one's ever lost one," Landis told SI."

The full article:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?...l06/jul28news2

I personally want to believe that Floyd didn't dope, just as I did when I heard Hamilton was accused. I now believe that Hamilton is guilty as charged, especially since he's been named in "Operacion Puerto". I'm giving Floyd the benefit of the doubt until the results of the B sample test are out.

[Alpedhuez55]

Originally Posted by Hammerhead

What a bunch of whining, sissy, sore losers those French are. I'm willing to bet if a European had won, nobody would be saying anything.

The UCI is in charge of that, not the French. Remember, the UCI booted a Spanish Vuelta Winner last year.

Though the french were probably responsible for the story being leaked, but all the media outlets put two and two together to figure outwhat the deal was. It was not hard to determine it was Landis.

[Alpedhuez55]

Originally Posted by hoosier

I personally want to believe that Floyd didn't dope, just as I did when I heard Hamilton was accused. I now believe that Hamilton is guilty as charged, especially since he's been named in "Operacion Puerto". I'm giving Floyd the benefit of the doubt until the results of the B sample test are out.

Well, I have a signed Tyler Jersey. I am trying to decide whether to frame it, ot use it to clean the mildew on my bathroom wall.

I gave him the benefit of the doubt as well. I met him a few times. He is a nice guy. But when he was named in Operation Puerto, I just wished he would come clean. His "Vanishing Twin Defense" is starting to look like O.J.'s search for the Real Killer.

Admit your crime, do your time, and hope to come back on a small team and show what you can do clean. It worked for Virenque. He got a lot of respect back after his suspension. Even Millar was treated with kid gloves. But Hamilton is starting to look like the Barry Bonds of Cycling, and his wife looks like Barry's Trainer if he was a hot brunette

[Charles]

Originally Posted by mosesbotbol

I am assuming that is the case, Alpeduez55 thinks they are already adjusted, which could well be the case.

Of course, if I had just won the tour, my testosterone levels would be elevated also.

[Hammerhead]

"Only the French would consider the presence of testosterone in a man's system suspicious."

Courtesy the Ravenwood site

[HeavySmoke]

What I do not understand is why would the guy dope it up knowing full well he would be tested. Nobody would be that stupid I would hope.

[Alpedhuez55]

Originally Posted by HeavySmoke

What I do not understand is why would the guy dope it up knowing full well he would be tested. Nobody would be that stupid I would hope.

It is looking worse for Floyd now. They are saying it was Synthetic Testosterone.

I am kind of pissed now. After Basso was bounced, I almost pick Perierro to win in the TDF contest. I had it down to Sastre, Pierro and Casar. I went with the Frog.

[mosesbotbol]

Truth is stranger than fiction. The more I read (I read every cycling site daily), the less sure I am about my own opinions. There are such compelling arguments on both sides.

If the tests are unreliable, they wouldn't have the tests to start with. Sure, Johnnie Cockroach can tell you that the tests are flawed, and a million other excuses why his test level are 11:1 with traces of synthetic mater, but I think all of these guys are dopers to one level or another. The human body is not a constant and as much as these doctors have it figured out, their precise dosages can yield unexpected results (as in a positive in drug test).

[Alpedhuez55]

Originally Posted by mosesbotbol

Truth is stranger than fiction. The more I read (I read every cycling site daily), the less sure I am about my own opinions. There are such compelling arguments on both sides.

If the tests are unreliable, they wouldn't have the tests to start with. Sure, Johnnie Cockroach can tell you that the tests are flawed, and a million other excuses why his test level are 11:1 with traces of synthetic mater, but I think all of these guys are dopers to one level or another. The human body is not a constant and as much as these doctors have it figured out, their precise dosages can yield unexpected results (as in a positive in drug test).

Well, I think the Synthetic is hard to explain, unless it is some false positive from the cortisone shot. I am sure his lawyers are thinking of their own "Vanishing Twin" Theory right about now. Or they are hoping the second test brings different results and they can blame it on the lab.

The problem is the testing is 10 - 15 years behind the curve here. The T-E Ratio is also a an indicator for other drugs or masking agents he could have used. I do not like the way the story is coming out through media leaks. BUt it looks like the information was correct.

And speaking of cycling sites, are you Botto on RBR???

[steve471]

Admit your crime, do your time, and hope to come back on a small team and show what you can do clean. It worked for Virenque.

Only problem there is that Richy never admitted to doping to the best of my knowledge. He just bullied his way back into cycling and yes that is only because he is French that he got away with it. The guy, like Hamilton, never had the class to own up to cheating and they still adored him, go figure.


The class is still out on Landis but I am getting this sinking feeling in my gut.

[Alpedhuez55]

Originally Posted by steve471

Only problem there is that Richy never admitted to doping to the best of my knowledge. He just bullied his way back into cycling and yes that is only because he is French that he got away with it. The guy, like Hamilton, never had the class to own up to cheating and they still adored him, go figure.


The class is still out on Landis but I am getting this sinking feeling in my gut.

He did admit to doping. I remember an interview with him in either Cycle Sport or Pro Cycling where he came clean right before his comeback. He admitted to his mistakes and came back clean. I think the two years off changed him a bit. As for the French, Virenque did not comeback to a French Team because of the he was riidiculed there. THe French Press was pretty hard on him.

You have to wonder if Tyler admitted his doping if he would be facing a lifetime ban? They are saying OP will be his nsecond offense. You have to wonder if it would have been his first if he admitted to it. I do not think there is a team that will touch him.

[steve471]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Virenque

Richard Virenque denied doping himself intentionally, while Willy Voet charged that he was perfectly conscious of what he was doing, and even participated in trafficking between professional cyclists. Virenque claimed that all this had happened, in his own words, "à l'insu de mon plein gré" ("without the knowledge of my own will"). Voet also wrote a book Breaking the Chain (Massacre à la Chaîne) in which he clearly (although not fully) identified Richard Virenque as an unrepentant doper in full knowledge of his own abuses.

Virenque was highly criticized by the media and satirists for his stubborn denial in the face of increasing evidence and his pretense of having been doped without his knowledge. The Les Guignols de l'Info show portrayed him repeating "à l'insu de mon plein gré" (literally, "unbeknownst to my free will"), and this phrase soon passed into French popular culture as a sign of hypocritical denial.

In March 2000, Richard Virenque went to trial as a witness with much of the former Festina team in Lille. After initially denying that he had doped himself, he confessed to having doped himself (doping oneself is not a crime).

You are correct sir, he did eventually admit to doping. My memory isn't what it used to be.

[Alpedhuez55]

Originally Posted by steve471

You are correct sir, he did eventually admit to doping. My memory isn't what it used to be.

I think the admission is an important part of the redemption. That is why I do not think Tyler can redeem himself.

I gave him the benefit of the dooubt until his name (as well as his wife's) surfaced in OP. I have met Tyler and he is a nice guy. I even have a signed jersey. This whole thing just sucks.

[mosesbotbol]

I want to see the results of OP before I start pointing fingers. Several people have been let off the hook already. None of the big names though. Basso sounds like he'll be racing in a couple of weeks. Ullrich sounds like it will be drawn out.