...Yankees.....

[yachties23]

Well maybe you think that way... I still think he should be in the HOF as a player... but as a manager... honestly his career has been medicore at best... sure he was the manager of those 4 ws teams... but what did he manage? A team that he didn't build, that was on its way the 2 years before. Honestly had there not been a strike in 94 I think the yanks were well on their way to series that year. Whenever it comes down a situation that he has to make a decision.. he always does the wrong thing, how many series do we have to say he was outmanaged before somebody holds it against him besides Steinbrenner?

[RPB67]

No big deal the Yankees are joining the Red Sox on the golf course.

Just a week later !!!

[Thurm15]

Originally Posted by RPB67

No big deal the Yankees are joining the Red Sox on the golf course.

Just a week later !!!

Most of them. I think A-Rod maybe spending some quality time on a couch in a shrinks office this off season.

[Thurm15]

Originally Posted by yachties23

Well maybe you think that way... I still think he should be in the HOF as a player... but as a manager... honestly his career has been medicore at best... sure he was the manager of those 4 ws teams... but what did he manage? A team that he didn't build, that was on its way the 2 years before. Honestly had there not been a strike in 94 I think the yanks were well on their way to series that year. Whenever it comes down a situation that he has to make a decision.. he always does the wrong thing, how many series do we have to say he was outmanaged before somebody holds it against him besides Steinbrenner?

Now I gotta spell it out for you? See none of the "Great" Manager's of the game had to Play two Playoff Series just to get to the World Series. Torre did it Successfully Four times!!!! Think about how tough that is. That's his ticket in to the HOF. His job ain't building teams it's running em. Maybe he has been outmanaged a few times sure, but he wasn't in '96, '98-00 was he?

[Alpedhuez55]

[QUOTE=Thurm15;541200]

Originally Posted by yachties23

Honestly why does anybody think Torre is a HOF manager? IfQUOTE]

It's simple. He's Managed a team that won 4 World Series in the Wild Card/Division Series Era.Not even the greatest of Manager's and that includes Mcarthy, Stengel and Huggins can touch that. He's a lock for the HOF. Period. End of Story.

I agree with you there to a point. THe record he has is worthy of the HOF, just by the number of World Series teams he has managed.

But an all time great manager? Not even close. He is lucky enough to manage the team with the highest payroll in baseball in the free agency era. He has pretty much had the best offensive team for the past decade and in that time, they have signed a lot ov very high profile starters. He has a closer who is almost automatic if you give him a 1 run lead going into the eight inning. He has gone into every season with the most talented team on paper.

The simple fact is, he could have won 6, 7 or 8 WS given the amount of talent. He is not even the best manager in baseball today. Trying to call him an all time great is a stretch, even if he did do it in the wildcard era.

[Thurm15]

[QUOTE=Alpedhuez55;541269]

Originally Posted by Thurm15

I agree with you there to a point. THe record he has is worthy of the HOF, just by the number of World Series teams he has managed.

But an all time great manager? Not even close. He is lucky enough to manage the team with the highest payroll in baseball in the free agency era. He has pretty much had the best offensive team for the past decade and in that time, they have signed a lot ov very high profile starters. He has a closer who is almost automatic if you give him a 1 run lead going into the eight inning. He has gone into every season with the most talented team on paper.

The simple fact is, he could have won 6, 7 or 8 WS given the amount of talent. He is not even the best manager in baseball today. Trying to call him an all time great is a stretch, even if he did do it in the wildcard era.

I didn't call him an all time great. He is a HOFer though.

[yachties23]

[QUOTE=Alpedhuez55;541269]

Originally Posted by Thurm15

I agree with you there to a point. THe record he has is worthy of the HOF, just by the number of World Series teams he has managed.

But an all time great manager? Not even close. He is lucky enough to manage the team with the highest payroll in baseball in the free agency era. He has pretty much had the best offensive team for the past decade and in that time, they have signed a lot ov very high profile starters. He has a closer who is almost automatic if you give him a 1 run lead going into the eight inning. He has gone into every season with the most talented team on paper.

The simple fact is, he could have won 6, 7 or 8 WS given the amount of talent. He is not even the best manager in baseball today. Trying to call him an all time great is a stretch, even if he did do it in the wildcard era.

This is what I mean exactly. Guys with teams that had nowhere near the talent of the Yankees always beat them because he gets outmanaged. I'm taking into consideration your 4 ws with the extra rounds of playoffs... you are totally right, much harder to win a WS now than it was say 15 years ago... but the guy isn't even in the top 10 when it comes to in game decisions. He basically sat back and let that mid to late 90s team run itself. He had a super bunch of talented kids, and a group of veterans who tought them how to play ball, not to mention THE MOST AUTOMATIC thing in baseball Mariano Rivera. Torre didn't do anything, actually for a stretch there I wasn't even sure if he didn't take a nap during a game. If i were to run down a list of managers who actually make a difference with there team, his name wouldn't even be on the list, and just so you know I'm not a bitter met or redsox fan, I'm a baseball fan who gets to see alot of the yankees.

[Alpedhuez55]

Originally Posted by Thurm15

I didn't call him an all time great. He is a HOFer though.

You tried to compare his aceivements to Mcarthy, Stengel and Huggins. THat is calling him an all time great.

I think it was harder to win a series before the Division Series, let alone the wildcard. You had to win a pennant race and only 1 team from each league made the playoffs.

[Thurm15]

Originally Posted by Alpedhuez55

You tried to compare his aceivements to Mcarthy, Stengel and Huggins. THat is calling him an all time great.

I think it was harder to win a series before the Division Series, let alone the wildcard. You had to win a pennant race and only 1 team from each league made the playoffs.

How many of the Yankees championships were won with a Wild Card Berth? 0. It's definately tougher to play that extra Playoff Series than to just win your division, go to the LCS and win the WS. To do what Torre and the Yanks did 4 times within 5 yrs is an amazing feat in my opinion. Also, what Torre did with the Yankees during his Managerial Tenure pretty much qualifies him as a sure fire HOFer and he will No doubt go down as one of the Greatest Club Manager's in our Generation. I don't care what the Yankees salary is or was. A lot of that Money was wasted on the likes of Carl Pavano and Kevin Brown.Poor Money management from the front office shouldn't take away from what Torre has done.

I'm finished with this subject.

[Thurm15]

[QUOTE=yachties23;541284]

Originally Posted by Alpedhuez55

This is what I mean exactly. Guys with teams that had nowhere near the talent of the Yankees always beat them because he gets outmanaged. I'm taking into consideration your 4 ws with the extra rounds of playoffs... you are totally right, much harder to win a WS now than it was say 15 years ago... but the guy isn't even in the top 10 when it comes to in game decisions. He basically sat back and let that mid to late 90s team run itself. He had a super bunch of talented kids, and a group of veterans who tought them how to play ball, not to mention THE MOST AUTOMATIC thing in baseball Mariano Rivera. Torre didn't do anything, actually for a stretch there I wasn't even sure if he didn't take a nap during a game. If i were to run down a list of managers who actually make a difference with there team, his name wouldn't even be on the list, and just so you know I'm not a bitter met or redsox fan, I'm a baseball fan who gets to see alot of the yankees.

One more response and I'm done with this. . OK, understand me. I don't care if Torre was in a GD coma for those 4 WS Championships and 6 AL Pennants. He was the Team Manager during those yr's and he did what it took to win. Period.

[Alpedhuez55]

Originally Posted by Thurm15

How many of the Yankees championships were won with a Wild Card Berth? 0. It's definately tougher to play that extra Playoff Series than to just win your division, go to the LCS and win the WS. To do what Torre and the Yanks did 4 times within 5 yrs is an amazing feat in my opinion. Also, what Torre did with the Yankees during his Managerial Tenure pretty much qualifies him as a sure fire HOFer and he will No doubt go down as one of the Greatest Club Manager's in our Generation. I don't care what the Yankees salary is or was. A lot of that Money was wasted on the likes of Carl Pavano and Kevin Brown.Poor Money management from the front office shouldn't take away from what Torre has done.

I'm finished with this subject.

The AL East is not exactly a powerhouse division. So they would not need to win from the wildcard. They only team they have really had to beat is the Sox. Batimore & Toronto have been so so at best in the past decade and Tampa Bay has just sucked. THat is also a big part of why the Sox have been able to win the wildcard with some regularity.

Torre can thank deep pockets for all of his series. Sure they have made mistakes here and there, every team does. But they have bought a lot of starting pitchers over the years. And having Rivera is huge. He is far and away the best releif pitcher of our day, and probably ever. So the pitching decisions most teams need to make after the 7th inning, have pretty much been a no brainer for him.

Could he do what he does with a small market team? Who knows? But if he cannot get by teams like the Tigers, Marlins, Rockies with two or three times the paroll, or the Sox with a 3-0 lead, I doubt it. I think his best years are behind him. I am suprised they kept him after the 2004.

But I do agree with you that the four series are enough to get him into the HOF. But he is a native New Yorker, coaching his home town team. I think at least in New York he is over-rated.

[Stogiefanatic182]

Originally Posted by Alpedhuez55

The AL East is not exactly a powerhouse division. So they would not need to win from the wildcard. They only team they have really had to beat is the Sox. Batimore & Toronto have been so so at best in the past decade and Tampa Bay has just sucked. THat is also a big part of why the Sox have been able to win the wildcard with some regularity.

Torre can thank deep pockets for all of his series. Sure they have made mistakes here and there, every team does. But they have bought a lot of starting pitchers over the years. And having Rivera is huge. He is far and away the best releif pitcher of our day, and probably ever. So the pitching decisions most teams need to make after the 7th inning, have pretty much been a no brainer for him.

Could he do what he does with a small market team? Who knows? But if he cannot get by teams like the Tigers, Marlins, Rockies with two or three times the paroll, or the Sox with a 3-0 lead, I doubt it. I think his best years are behind him. I am suprised they kept him after the 2004.

But I do agree with you that the four series are enough to get him into the HOF. But he is a native New Yorker, coaching his home town team. I think at least in New York he is over-rated.[/B]

Well Said,

[Thurm15]

Originally Posted by Stogiefanatic182

Well Said,

Of course it is. Your a Red Sox fan.

[carbonbased_al]

Originally Posted by Thurm15

Of course it is. Your a Red Sox fan.

You think Francona will be in the HOF along with Torre?

[Thurm15]

Originally Posted by carbonbased_al

You think Francona will be in the HOF along with Torre?

Yeah Probably.











Right after he and the Sox win 3 more World Series Titles.