Another tax from the Democraps

[SeanGAR]

Originally Posted by Fenwick

Well in case you forgot, they did try to blow up the World Trade Center with bombs in the basement in February of 1993.

Iraqis did that?

Those that can't seem to leave their high school histrionics in the past seem to repeat history by continuing to shit stir.

You're speaking to the originator of this thread I presume.

[replicant_argent]

Originally Posted by SeanGAR

You're speaking to the originator of this thread I presume.

It is very likely, considering the wording, placement, and selective descriptors I used, that I may have been referring to more than one poster.
Of course, I could be wrong, and my opinions are very often better kept to myself. I wouldn't want to offer a prize winning comment when the actual prize was of questionable provenance.

[Corona Gigante]

Originally Posted by replicant_argent

Those that can't seem to leave their high school histrionics in the past seem to repeat history by continuing to shit stir.



My lord... enough.

Originally Posted by macjoe53

Where's a moderator when you need one...

Excuse me guys, we're trying to have a civil discussion about the cost of the war here.

Feel free not to contribute, but if you do, please try to keep it on topic. Thanks.

[replicant_argent]

Originally Posted by Corona Gigante

Apparently not.

Why not quit your trolling and go review a cigar?

My sincere apologies, Nicky. I took this (and your previous statement) as the equivalent of a high school bully poking his finger into the shoulder of another and egging him on. I must have been mistaken. My impressions are that every time I read a political thread here, you are in the middle of it, and my impressions must have overtaken my wisdom. Perhaps my initial take on that peculiar coincidence left something my politically and semantically untrained mind must have been abysmally unqualified to register.

Originally Posted by ResIpsa

I'm neither Republican nor Demorcrat, and I'm not trying to stir the pot, I'm sincerely interested in your response to this question:

You begin a thread with this title, obviously intended to offend anyone who is a Democrat:

"Another tax from the Democraps"

Now you want to know where the Mods are? What exactly did you think was going to occur???

Originally Posted by Corona Gigante

Excuse me guys, we're trying to have a civil discussion about the cost of the war here.

Feel free not to contribute, but if you do, please try to keep it on topic. Thanks.

My initial postings were perhaps a bit crass, but these posts are about as amusing as being Henry'd to death.
Vic, my actual sincere apologies for any shit stirring of my own.

[AAlmeter]

DISCLAIMER: THIS RAMBLES


Pete,

I can't say that I agree or disagree with your statements. God knows it makes a little bubble come up into my throat to even think of agreeing with CG (I'm going in for a full psychiatric evaluation tomorrow because of it), but he did express an opinion. Was it a silly Limey/Commie one? Of course! But that's why we love him here on CS. He is our own little Stalin/queer eye for the cigar guy! Given my past here regarding political threads, it becomes very difficult to recall just who I agree with and who I don't, as there are just so many that I have had the pleasure of debating with. But as I recall, you and I were quite close in our opinions (again, this is just based on my memory, I could be wrong).

While I do agree that the hounding after a week or so for political reasons and the constant additions to a dead 'Red State' thread are a little, well, sad...they do no harm and really do a number to show the state of liberalism. As much as the average Joe with an IQ above 85 disagrees with liberalism, it is funny for us to watch it flail around denouncing the war, Bush, common sense, individuality, responsibility, all the things that made America great. But hey, some have moved here from other countries and want to transform us into their homeland. Good for them. Some do it through World Trade Center bombings or plane hijackings, some do it through cigar boards. So let's just look at the positive....it could be worse.

Onwards, I do think that your post about shit stirring was quite funny as it really served no purpose other than to stir shit. I could be wrong, but in my opinion, stirring shit is essentially causing trouble while bringing forth no good ideas. As I said, I do not recall with great accuracy your political leanings, but I do remember having respect for what you've posted in the past, so you are in my book whether you lean to the left or the right. That post, however, was less than that.

And to whoever the hell asked for the mods to step in....Christ, seek help. If you encourage that with some, next thing you know every non-cigar discussion on here will be limited to what toppings we like on our pancakes on the day after a herf with a select group of people.



Above all, we need to remain respectful in our posts. Unfortunately, much intelligent non-cigar related discussion is under a lot of heat lately.

Granted, I have called out 2-3 members who post in political threads in this particular thread, and 2 or so who post in well, I don't know how the hell they got so many posts, but they did. So this may seem as a bit of an oxymoron, but remember, as you enter into the realm of politics, keep your comments closely regulated. Sometimes, it is fine to go out on a limb with the comments. For example, I'd feel completely at ease calling SeanGar a Hillary-tit-sucking tweed-wearing Canuck, but thats because I know him well and would feel comfortable calling him that to his face in jest. He would likely call me something similar.....in jest. Calling others that, however, would be crossing the line for me as we do not have that personal relationship that overcomes political lines.


As usual, I have much more to say on this topic and many more, but my keyboard is smoking.



Let's see if I get banned for this one!

[replicant_argent]

Originally Posted by AAlmeter

DISCLAIMER: THIS RAMBLES


Onwards, I do think that your post about shit stirring was quite funny as it really served no purpose other than to stir shit. I could be wrong, but in my opinion, stirring shit is essentially causing trouble while bringing forth no good ideas.


Let's see if I get banned for this one!

It was... perhaps, a pre-emptive strike after seeing the turn of the thread and the usual suspects starting to bristle.

A poor one at best, my condolences to my once sharper wit, and to your having to read it, Adam.
Sometimes I simply babble and there are far too many jokes bouncing around in my mostly vacant skull at times that I don't convey the proper (and FAAAAR funnier) ones.

[pistol]

Man, terror attacks suck, war sucks, tax increases suck, and I'd bet a serious recession would suck too. I'm also willing to bet that as all three of these things happen (or continue to happen), these political threads are just going to get hotter and hotter...

[Corona Gigante]

Originally Posted by Fenwick

Exactly! The war is actually only costing a fraction of what the alarmists like coronagigante would like you to believe.

Care to substantiate that statement?

By "substantiate", I mean that you'll have to start by telling me what how much I "would like you to believe" that the invasion and occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq has cost to date, then you would have to come up with a credible source to show I am mistaken--more credible, anyway, than the General Accounting Office (GAO), which is the source for the figures I find most credible.

[macjoe53]

Originally Posted by AAlmeter

DISCLAIMER: THIS RAMBLES


Pete,

I can't say that I agree or disagree with your statements. God knows it makes a little bubble come up into my throat to even think of agreeing with CG (I'm going in for a full psychiatric evaluation tomorrow because of it), but he did express an opinion. Was it a silly Limey/Commie one? Of course! But that's why we love him here on CS. He is our own little Stalin/queer eye for the cigar guy! Given my past here regarding political threads, it becomes very difficult to recall just who I agree with and who I don't, as there are just so many that I have had the pleasure of debating with. But as I recall, you and I were quite close in our opinions (again, this is just based on my memory, I could be wrong).

While I do agree that the hounding after a week or so for political reasons and the constant additions to a dead 'Red State' thread are a little, well, sad...they do no harm and really do a number to show the state of liberalism. As much as the average Joe with an IQ above 85 disagrees with liberalism, it is funny for us to watch it flail around denouncing the war, Bush, common sense, individuality, responsibility, all the things that made America great. But hey, some have moved here from other countries and want to transform us into their homeland. Good for them. Some do it through World Trade Center bombings or plane hijackings, some do it through cigar boards. So let's just look at the positive....it could be worse.

Onwards, I do think that your post about shit stirring was quite funny as it really served no purpose other than to stir shit. I could be wrong, but in my opinion, stirring shit is essentially causing trouble while bringing forth no good ideas. As I said, I do not recall with great accuracy your political leanings, but I do remember having respect for what you've posted in the past, so you are in my book whether you lean to the left or the right. That post, however, was less than that.

And to whoever the hell asked for the mods to step in....Christ, seek help. If you encourage that with some, next thing you know every non-cigar discussion on here will be limited to what toppings we like on our pancakes on the day after a herf with a select group of people.



Above all, we need to remain respectful in our posts. Unfortunately, much intelligent non-cigar related discussion is under a lot of heat lately.

Granted, I have called out 2-3 members who post in political threads in this particular thread, and 2 or so who post in well, I don't know how the hell they got so many posts, but they did. So this may seem as a bit of an oxymoron, but remember, as you enter into the realm of politics, keep your comments closely regulated. Sometimes, it is fine to go out on a limb with the comments. For example, I'd feel completely at ease calling SeanGar a Hillary-tit-sucking tweed-wearing Canuck, but thats because I know him well and would feel comfortable calling him that to his face in jest. He would likely call me something similar.....in jest. Calling others that, however, would be crossing the line for me as we do not have that personal relationship that overcomes political lines.


As usual, I have much more to say on this topic and many more, but my keyboard is smoking.



Let's see if I get banned for this one!

You are right.

[Corona Gigante]

Originally Posted by macjoe53

You are right.

Waaay to the right. What was your first clue?

[AAlmeter]

Originally Posted by Corona Gigante

Waaay to the right. What was your first clue?

I'm a moderate. Everyone else is just a brain dead leftist hippy.

[Mister Moo]

Originally Posted by ResIpsa

...this title, obviously intended to offend anyone who is a Democrat:

"Another tax from the Democraps"

Now you want to know where the Mods are? What exactly did you think was going to occur???

Really. I'm so pleased CS made this little feedlot to keep a few mouthy political mutts behind an electric fence. (Personally, I always give the A'HARP a pass because he knows so damn much about cigars AND lives his life as a public servant.) The threads title and fenwicks discourteous mouth aside, this is an interesting discussion.

So, then. I take it we're not paying off our debts by pumping more and more $100 bbl oil out of the Gulf of Mexico? Damn - and Chevron REALLY was busy out there just yesterday. Seems like they could cover the whole bill as a favor to me. Perhaps they're just waiting for $200 bbl before making a contribution?

As with coffee grinders I also take the long view with human being grinders these days. You get that way when you know dead soldiers. Never too cynical about our masters, I know now that Viet Nam actually had nothing to do with our need for tin, chromium and a few other dicey strategic metals. It ended up that it was all about whose accounts in Hanoi the profits would be deposited too; our masters (then Kennedy, MacNamera, Johnson, Nixon, Agnew, Kissinger, etc., a pretty eclectic spectrum, isn't it?) really WERE so out of touch that they believed a few thousand dozen dead Americans would make our future safer. Or, in Lyndon's hogtied case, he believed no generals, no diplomats - nothing at all. Indeed. We might not be safer from the Chicoms today but we're certainly dressing better, for less. Cheap shirts and pajamas (none black, I notice) from profit-motivated factories in Ho Chi Minh City keep us in affordable warcquones. Now there's an effing irony. If only I'd known in the long haul I was fighting for the disintegration of the US textile industry so Vietnamese communist bosses could profit, 30-years later, from cheap skilled labor in Saigon. Oh yeah. And shoes. We earned boatloads of cheap shirts and Nike shoes made from child labor. You really have to take the long view to see how many carloads of Vasoline American policy can allocate for your a$$. And here I really am talking about the best of intentions for the free world and all that jazz but! You don't have to twist the facts to drown in (some) irony. All of you with the absolute certainty about how more dead arabs and more dead Americans in Iraq makes us safe - first shed some tears for my brothers blood left in Quang Tri Province, betrayed by ill-conceived policy, before you tell me how our ME policy will play out 30 years from now. You really ought to think this out a little harder for your unborn children.

I give credit to all ME policy experts out there in Cigarland. If you have certainty about the correctness of our policy then it is probably based on what you wish was true. While wishing is not a sound basis for strategic policy you're right up there with the neocons, senators and representatives who lied and wished us into the difficult position we're in. (I admit it - I bit on the underground germ factories even if the UN didn't.) They are all doing quite well since they left the administration, by the way. And their children are not dead because they never elected to serve. How nice for them.

New day. I am sure that, with all the oil geniuses we have in Washington, it is only their infinite wisdom keeping us safe and holding oil under $500 bbl this year. I wonder how we will finance and win the parallel spending war that has already begun against Hugo Chavez (at $100 bbl. he can buy a lot of cordite, right?) when he starts aiming missles toward the Gulf of Mexico. Boy. That'll piss off the boys at Chevron. How safe are we making the boys out on those rigs today?

New day. Oops. New threat assessment. No nuke program in Iran for the past two years. Stop the B2s! Oops again? Oh well.

There was something less insulting about laying down hide for an ideal. Tell me where the ideal is, today, please? Financing Exxon's restructuring shouldn't figure in. Self deceit is thinking that our ME policy, and the cost of that policy, is paying off long term security dividends. If you think it is then you don't know how to read a history book or a newspaper. There are two wars that need winning. One is a national security war requiring leadership vision and talent, American will and an energy policy; the other war is one of ideas. We haven't started on the first one yet and we're losing the second. I love this country and have kissed the ground more than once but my love for America does not obviate the certainty we'll never be secure when policy includes secret prisons, kidnapping, elimination of habeas corpus and hair-splitting on the definition of torture to further a war for oil.

Sorry. Was this about taxes? I am off topic again, darn it. And I don't do political. Never mind.

[Mister Moo]

You know what? Add this to the post above. Reducing issues of the greatest national importance, issues touching patriotism, national security policy and the requisite willingness to die (or send others to their deaths) to defend the constitution of the United States to a FakeNews catch phrase like "DemoCrap" misses the boat. Dropping a political slur label on someone whose opinion differs from yours is is cheaper than dimestore perfume and smells worse. It is a less than clever way to bypass original thinking and insures you will never convert that person to your position.

When you've missed common courtesy in presenting your position you have betrayed your own position and, probably, demonstrated it lacks the muscle to stand on its' own.

I am fed up to here with a name callers - particularly the uninvested anonymous ones - who can't create a well thought out political position without calling someone else a dickhead. It just makes me want to call them.... D'OH!!! NAMES!

Jeepers. A war funding thread under "Tobacco Legislation" - close, but no cigar (heh heh); and this fenwick runs his mouth but doesn't have the cajones to post his own personal information.

[Fenwick]

Originally Posted by Corona Gigante

Care to substantiate that statement?

By "substantiate", I mean that you'll have to start by telling me what how much I "would like you to believe" that the invasion and occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq has cost to date, then you would have to come up with a credible source to show I am mistaken--more credible, anyway, than the General Accounting Office (GAO), which is the source for the figures I find most credible.

Just let it go nicky and please do us all a favor and resist your urge to continue to troll for trouble.

Everyone here already has your number so there's no need for you to continue to confirm what we all already know about you.

[Fenwick]

Originally Posted by Mister Moo

and this fenwick runs his mouth but doesn't have the cajones to post his own personal information.

What does whether or not I post my personal information have to do with anything? Please enlighten us.