SCHIP VETO'd

[Bob]

The stupidity of this bill and others like it demean the American people. To assume that a household making over 80K a year is in need of federal help for childcare is taxation gone amuck!!! This would turn into a true monster of a health care crisis should the tax implied not be paid and smokers really did quit smoking in protest of the taxation. It would put manufacturers out of business and at the same time put this kind of government health care tied to tobacco out of comission. It would be comparable to the tossing of tea in the ocean as was once done to the King of England! It is stupid for our representatives to address healthcare in this way. A much better way can and will be found if we can convience the representatives of this lunacy to stop addressing healthcare using tobacco money. If the manufacturerers and corporations of big tobacco could support the American smoker in a "smoke out" it would be helpful in applying pressure to the government in trying to address healthcare in this way. An active protest would be to not pay tobacco taxes in protest but the only way to do that would be to refrain from smoking.....which in turn would hurt manufacturers...NONE of us want to see that happen. There has to be a democratic way of protest to stop this overbearing legislation. This kind of thing ties the hands of the consumer and it ties the hands of the manufacturer and it takes away personal power and freedom of choice to all concerned. This is only round one. Any ideas on what can be done??

[Sawyer]

Originally Posted by Bob

The stupidity of this bill and others like it demean the American people. To assume that a household making over 80K a year is in need of federal help for childcare is taxation gone amuck!!! This would turn into a true monster of a health care crisis should the tax implied not be paid and smokers really did quit smoking in protest of the taxation. It would put manufacturers out of business and at the same time put this kind of government health care tied to tobacco out of comission. It would be comparable to the tossing of tea in the ocean as was once done to the King of England! It is stupid for our representatives to address healthcare in this way. A much better way can and will be found if we can convience the representatives of this lunacy to stop addressing healthcare using tobacco money. If the manufacturerers and corporations of big tobacco could support the American smoker in a "smoke out" it would be helpful in applying pressure to the government in trying to address healthcare in this way. An active protest would be to not pay tobacco taxes in protest but the only way to do that would be to refrain from smoking.....which in turn would hurt manufacturers...NONE of us want to see that happen. There has to be a democratic way of protest to stop this overbearing legislation. This kind of thing ties the hands of the consumer and it ties the hands of the manufacturer and it takes away personal power and freedom of choice to all concerned. This is only round one. Any ideas on what can be done??

Black Market. Just order from out of the country. But then that would hurt the B&M owners.

[Corona Gigante]

Originally Posted by fishforfree

Great point doctorcue!! It's unreal how the media twists things......just blows me away.

Yes, isn't it? Here’s an good example.

Originally Posted by Sawyer

I had to explain to my co-workers this morning about why Bush vetoed this. They all came in believing the media hype about how Bush doesn't want kids to have health care. After I explained $83,000 household income and 25 year old children, they understood.

The president also complained that the bill would cover too many children who don't need federal help. "This program expands coverage, federal coverage, up to families earning $83,000 a year. That doesn't sound poor to me," the president told the Lancaster audience.

Dorn [Stan Dorn, a senior research associate with the Urban Institute, a Washington-based think tank] says that's not exactly right, either. "This bill would actually put new limits in place to keep states from going to very high-income levels. SCHIP money would no longer be available over 300 percent of the federal poverty level, which is about $60,000 for a family of four."

The president gets to make the $83,000 claim because New York had wanted to allow children in families with incomes up to four times the poverty level onto the program. That is, indeed, $82,600. The Department of Health and Human Services rejected New York's plan last month, and under the bill, that denial would stand. White House officials warn, however, that the bill would allow a future administration to grant New York's request.

More...

[GOAT LOCKER]

Originally Posted by Corona Gigante

Yes, isn't it? Here’s an good example.
Bunch of stuff from NPR deleted

It's a very complex issue, and both sides are spinning as always. Most sources of info are pretty biased, but the bottom line is that they want to increase the program costs by $35B at the expense of a small number of tax payers.

Also, the income requirements are misleading. The requirements set by most states are not even gross income, but allow many deductions. New Jersey has already raised the income limit to $72K/Year under the "old" SCHIP. You think they are counting other federal, state and local benefits as income? WIC, food stamps, subsidized housing, etc?

Also, according to the Congressional Budget Office report, between 25% and 50% of all new enrollments under the proposed guidlines would be people cancelling their existing insurance in order to join SCHIP.

And as far as enrolling adults? There are already 671,000 adults enrolled.

How about this... Institute cost sharing between the state and federal governments like it is done now, but the federal share starts decreasing at 150% of poverty level, and ends at 200%. If states want to provide medical welfare to the middle class, that's on them. This way, the blue states can create their social utopias and I can move to a conservative state to get away from these taxes. Let us know how it works out...

It's just a matter of time anyway. We already have coverage for the children, the elderly, the poor and the lower middle class. All you need now is the middle class. The upper middle class and the rich will pay out of pocket for high end "filet mignon" medical care, while the rest will get government cheese.

[nimravus01]

Originally Posted by GOAT LOCKER

It's a very complex issue, and both sides are spinning as always. Most sources of info are pretty biased, but the bottom line is that they want to increase the program costs by $35B at the expense of a small number of tax payers.

Also, the income requirements are misleading. The requirements set by most states are not even gross income, but allow many deductions. New Jersey has already raised the income limit to $72K/Year under the "old" SCHIP. You think they are counting other federal, state and local benefits as income? WIC, food stamps, subsidized housing, etc?

Also, according to the Congressional Budget Office report, between 25% and 50% of all new enrollments under the proposed guidlines would be people cancelling their existing insurance in order to join SCHIP.

And as far as enrolling adults? There are already 671,000 adults enrolled.

How about this... Institute cost sharing between the state and federal governments like it is done now, but the federal share starts decreasing at 150% of poverty level, and ends at 200%. If states want to provide medical welfare to the middle class, that's on them. This way, the blue states can create their social utopias and I can move to a conservative state to get away from these taxes. Let us know how it works out...

It's just a matter of time anyway. We already have coverage for the children, the elderly, the poor and the lower middle class. All you need now is the middle class. The upper middle class and the rich will pay out of pocket for high end "filet mignon" medical care, while the rest will get government cheese.

Nicely put

[omowasu]

Originally Posted by GOAT LOCKER

It's a very complex issue, and both sides are spinning as always. Most sources of info are pretty biased, but the bottom line is that they want to increase the program costs by $35B at the expense of a small number of tax payers.

Also, the income requirements are misleading. The requirements set by most states are not even gross income, but allow many deductions. New Jersey has already raised the income limit to $72K/Year under the "old" SCHIP. You think they are counting other federal, state and local benefits as income? WIC, food stamps, subsidized housing, etc?

Also, according to the Congressional Budget Office report, between 25% and 50% of all new enrollments under the proposed guidlines would be people cancelling their existing insurance in order to join SCHIP.

And as far as enrolling adults? There are already 671,000 adults enrolled.

How about this... Institute cost sharing between the state and federal governments like it is done now, but the federal share starts decreasing at 150% of poverty level, and ends at 200%. If states want to provide medical welfare to the middle class, that's on them. This way, the blue states can create their social utopias and I can move to a conservative state to get away from these taxes. Let us know how it works out...

It's just a matter of time anyway. We already have coverage for the children, the elderly, the poor and the lower middle class. All you need now is the middle class. The upper middle class and the rich will pay out of pocket for high end "filet mignon" medical care, while the rest will get government cheese.

Agreed, and well put. I agree with the veto for the above reasons, even without consideration of my cigar habit. Consider this:

- Since when is a 25-year old considered to be a child eligible for government health care? Last I had heard, when one turned 18, it was college clinics, medicare, or employer insurance.

- Since when is a family making 80000.00 / annum eligible for government healthcare? 80K is WELL ABOVE the countrys median wage. Buy less games for the Playstation 3 and spend some on copays. How hard is that?

- Since when is anyone "uninsured"? Every American is insured through Medicare/Medicaid at a bare minimum. The government already picks up the tab if one cannot pay. There is no such thing as an uninsured American.

You really have to wonder how deep the rabbit hole goes on this one. Sometimes the mob mentality of some groups just amazes me - how willing they are to take the news at "face value" without looking behind the curtain to see who controls the Wizard of Oz. Our dollar is weak, the last thing we need are more government entitlements or spending programs.

[dennis569]

The parade of kids by the liberal bedwetters has begun.
"For the children"
From now on when someone says "for the children" I'm automaticaly
against it.
Let's face it, most kids are little pricks. If you disagree just spend a
bit of time in a Wallmart.
My kids are grown now but I remember like it was yesterday having a house full of runny nosed little beggers.
Most of these welfare minded folks learn their welfare attitudes as kids.
"Mommy, I'm hungry, Daddy, I need clothes for school" Always whinning.
When I was a kid we were tough (even if we couldn't spell)
And we were poor, too. When I was six years old we didn't have no fancy
cigars. We had to smoke corn silk. No tv either. We had to entertain ourselves. I feel sorry for kids these days. They'll never know the thrill of tripping chickens or the hilarity of getting hogs drunk on mash.
I guess I'm getting to be a cranky old turd. But I like it.
Euell says " Howdy"

[CeeGar]

Please enjoy....

[Studebaker]

Originally Posted by dennis569

The parade of kids by the liberal bedwetters has begun.
"For the children"
From now on when someone says "for the children" I'm automaticaly
against it.
Let's face it, most kids are little pricks. If you disagree just spend a
bit of time in a Wallmart.
My kids are grown now but I remember like it was yesterday having a house full of runny nosed little beggers.
Most of these welfare minded folks learn their welfare attitudes as kids.
"Mommy, I'm hungry, Daddy, I need clothes for school" Always whinning.
When I was a kid we were tough (even if we couldn't spell)
And we were poor, too. When I was six years old we didn't have no fancy
cigars. We had to smoke corn silk. No tv either. We had to entertain ourselves. I feel sorry for kids these days. They'll never know the thrill of tripping chickens or the hilarity of getting hogs drunk on mash.
I guess I'm getting to be a cranky old turd. But I like it.
Euell says " Howdy"

What a great role model for your kids!

[fordkustom]

oh we can be assured it will raise its ugly mug in the future.

[Papichulo]

Imagine the billions of $$ will be saved if the illegals leave our country. It would ensure medical coverage for the poor citizens is taken care of. Secondly, if we tightened up the laws for unemployment we will reduce the unemployment rate. Thirdly, do not bail out the home mortgages. Lastly, if you lost your home to a natural disaster and did not have insurance piss on you.

I am pissed off!!!!

Back to the cigar tax. When was the last time a cigar smoker killed someone on our roads??

Drinking kills, not the cigar smoker.

[TripleF]

Originally Posted by Papichulo

Imagine the billions of $$ will be saved if the illegals leave our country. It would ensure medical coverage for the poor citizens is taken care of. Secondly, if we tightened up the laws for unemployment we will reduce the unemployment rate. Thirdly, do not bail out the home mortgages. Lastly, if you lost your home to a natural disaster and did not have insurance piss on you.

I am pissed off!!!!

Back to the cigar tax. When was the last time a cigar smoker killed someone on our roads??

Drinking kills, not the cigar smoker.

Here. Here. Brilliant post!!

We do need to do everything in our power, even though the political powers don't give us any power, to contact our politicians and try and convert them so that the additional 20 or so votes needed to overturn the veto are not gathered.

I sent this to my politician in FL:

Do you have a conscience?

You can not possibly in right mind allow this amount of taxes you are proposing to be added on top of an industry you are trying to diminish and expect to force poor people earning 85K annually to accept these handouts.

Don't you remember when common sense ruled your judgement as opposed to political games. Are the political games you engage in so powerful that you have become numb to them and now you sleep peacefully at night?

The SCHIP bill is exactly that.........a game.

Explain this to an outsider:
Raise taxes on an industry we would like to eliminate.
Take tax money and give to families with incomes of 85K.

Everybody who hears this looks at me like a confused dog as they raise their eyebrow and tilt their head.

Vote common sense. Agree with the President and this one and leave the veto alone!



Contact your politicians again Gorillas.
Put the pressure on!!

[CIGARTOYZ]

Originally Posted by illinoishoosier

We can't get too excited yet...these things always have a way of getting resurrected with something extra added.

But smoke 'em now!!

I agree with you. Its not over until its over

[Corona Gigante]

Originally Posted by GOAT LOCKER

It's just a matter of time anyway. We already have coverage for the children, the elderly, the poor and the lower middle class. All you need now is the middle class. The upper middle class and the rich will pay out of pocket for high end "filet mignon" medical care, while the rest will get government cheese.

I won't comment on your unattributed assertions. but I agree with you there. As Winston Churchill said, "The United States invariably does the right thing, after having exhausted every other alternative."

And government cheese is better than nothing at all, don't you think?

[kjjm4]

Yes, government cheese is better than nothing at all, but I think the point he was trying to make is that most middle class citizens who have insurance now will get worse coverage/care under a government-run system, and probably pay more (through increased taxes).