Congress again passes kids health bill

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by Simplified

I was going to type my opinion here but decided to stick a needle in my eye instead.

I decided to just punch myself in the balls. It's less painful that way.

[Bigwaved]

What I find the most amusing is the way complex problems are smartly packaged in the most simplistic manner. Today's professional politicians are very adept at this. Some of it is due to necessity, but some to skew the subject. This SCHIP program is a result of a complex problem. Brent seems to be attempting to gently remind people that not everything is as black and white as it is presented to the general public. Circumstances can be such that it does not fit into a soundbite or talking point. I guess if it is too difficult to find the time or inclination to become more informed, then reading this post is a waste of time as well.

[yamaha6000]

Originally Posted by Corona Gigante

Damn that congress, acting all concerned about kids again! Don't they have anything better to do?--like rubber stamping Bush's latest $183 billion war appropriation?


With all due respect, I've heard some idiotic arguments against funding SCHIP, but "they're your kids, you pay for them" is by far the nuttiest.

Umm, this isn't for kids, it's for middle class families with "kids" being up to 25 years old.
What's wrong with someone wanting YOU to take care of YOUR own kids? I know I don't want to take care of YOUR kids.

[Bigwaved]

Originally Posted by yamaha6000

Umm, this isn't for kids, it's for middle class families with "kids" being up to 25 years old.
What's wrong with someone wanting YOU to take care of YOUR own kids? I know I don't want to take care of YOUR kids.

Since you seem so concerned about paying for things, where do you assume the bill will go for these same people seeking much more costly emergent care due to no avenue for routine care? "Nipping it in the bud" as they say regarding health issues is one of the major benefits to providing care for the individuals that cannot afford it on their own.

[yamaha6000]

Originally Posted by Bigwaved

Since you seem so concerned about paying for things, where do you assume the bill will go for these same people seeking much more costly emergent care due to no avenue for routine care? "Nipping it in the bud" as they say regarding health issues is one of the major benefits to providing care for the individuals that cannot afford it on their own.

What? I'm not positive I know what your saying, but I'm not against providing some healthcare to individuals. I'm just saying that this SCHIP is more than just for people who can't afford it. It would take many people off of private health coverage that are already paying for it, and put them under governmental health coverage. There's NO need!!!

[Seanohue]

Have you guys seen the propaganda ads for these? Absolutely unbelievable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMitrtE4N4A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ql1vW0OK4YE

[Bigwaved]

Originally Posted by yamaha6000

What? I'm not positive I know what your saying, but I'm not against providing some healthcare to individuals. I'm just saying that this SCHIP is more than just for people who can't afford it. It would take many people off of private health coverage that are already paying for it, and put them under governmental health coverage. There's NO need!!!

If that is what you meant by the below quote, then you could have fooled me...

Originally Posted by yamaha6000

Umm, this isn't for kids, it's for middle class families with "kids" being up to 25 years old.
What's wrong with someone wanting YOU to take care of YOUR own kids? I know I don't want to take care of YOUR kids.

[SteveDMatt]

Originally Posted by puffstuff

We already have a program for those people, it's called Social Security/Medicaid. Disabled children such as my daughter are already covered by medicaid. That's why we already pay an assload of our paychecks to SSI and Medicare.

Al

Actually SSI was implemented as a retirement plan. Over the years the government has decided to suck from that fund for multiple purposes. I don't expect there to be any money in that fund when I get there.

Originally Posted by c2000

This is all about politics they passed it again so after Bush vetos it they can say how he hates children for the next month. My mantra is you have em (kids) you pay for em,,don't be asking me for money..

Jerry in Minnesota.

This is my philosophy with multiple issues. Why do half of my property taxes go toward sending your children to school?

If SCHIP was for children with disabilities and not just all children whose parents make less than $XXXXX, I would more than likely be for it. If it helped to protect our SSI, it would be more appealing to me. I still think it would need to be funded in a different manner.

I understand taxes are a necessity, but gouging any one group of people is my problem with this. That's why I have a problem with school taxes. Your gouging people without children. If they were to double the federal tax on cigars, I would be OK with that (a maximum of $.10 per cigar), but this proposal is ridiculous.

[AAlmeter]

It has dick-diddly to do with funding anything or curing anyone. Any bozo can take a look at England and see the failures of socialism in almost every way. It is about two tag lines, "We tried to save the children" and "We fought against tobacco."

Whether the limps and libs get this passed or not is not the main issue...they just want to be able to spew forth those two lines come election time. However, as a bonus, if it does pass, you increase dependence on the gub'mint. The more people dependent on the gub'mint, the more votes the democrats get. Next thing you know, you have people so concerned with entitlements and looting that they forget to get out of the way of a class 3 hurricane.

[Bigwaved]

Originally Posted by AAlmeter

It has dick-diddly to do with funding anything or curing anyone. Any bozo can take a look at England and see the failures of socialism in almost every way. It is about two tag lines, "We tried to save the children" and "We fought against tobacco."

Whether the limps and libs get this passed or not is not the main issue...they just want to be able to spew forth those two lines come election time. However, as a bonus, if it does pass, you increase dependence on the gub'mint. The more people dependent on the gub'mint, the more votes the democrats get. Next thing you know, you have people so concerned with entitlements and looting that they forget to get out of the way of a class 3 hurricane.

Arrgggh! Someone stole my lunch money when I was six years old and I haven't recovered yet...

[garilla]

I think we all are of the same conclusion that the cigar industry should NOT be the sole funder of this. We also generally agree that "children" at age 25 and families making $80K/year are not exactly classified properly to be included in this bill. $80K/year is far from poverty. My apologies if you feel differently, get that fscking silver spoon out of your mouth and take the place of a Marine for a day in the "sandbox", maybe you'll feel differently.

When looking for the answer, the question is summed into ONE word: Why.

"We need this because insurance bills are too high."
Why?

"Because doctors charge too much."
Why?

"Because liability insurance is too much."
Why?

"Because lawsuits are expensive."
Why?

Bottom line is you can chase damn near every type of insurance back to the fact that lawsuits are absolutely out of control.
(NOTE: I have nothing against lawyers, I really can't fault them here, they know the ways to make their income, it just happens to be a LOT more than the average joe makes. Average Joe, don't bitch, invent some moronic device and sell it on the Internet if you want to be a millionaire.)

Our laws regarding lawsuits SUCK. Laws and actions regarding illegal immigrants SUCK. You want to fix any of this? Then keep asking Why until you find the ROOT cause of the problem.

You want to award someone millions for spilling coffee in their lap? Why!?!?!?!? Complete and utter bullshit.

If it keeps going the way it's going, we're going to have a nation of lazy-assed Gen-Z'ers sitting on their ass all day long sucking on the teat of the Government instead of actually doing what so many generations before them did. Earn a living.



- Garilla

[gui_tarzan]

Guys, as much as I don't want this new bill to pass either, I read the bill that was sent to the Senate last week and it cuts off the assistance to people older than 18 over the next two years AND it limits the income level to 3X the poverty level which would roughly be $60k for a family of four with two kids under 18. It also has other restrictions the former didn't but regardless of that it still threatens to kill the cigar industry because the idiots in Congress can't get their heads out of their asses long enough to see the funding they are depending on for this will dry up and go away. We need to continue the email, mail and phone campaigns to our congressional (I'm going to puke saying this) leaders until they get it.

Carl Levin replied to me last week with a note saying it would be immoral not to provide health care for these children. No, it's immoral to destroy a legal, thriving business by taxing them to death.

[croatan]

Originally Posted by garilla

"Because lawsuits are expensive."
Why?

Bottom line is you can chase damn near every type of insurance back to the fact that lawsuits are absolutely out of control.
(NOTE: I have nothing against lawyers, I really can't fault them here, they know the ways to make their income, it just happens to be a LOT more than the average joe makes. Average Joe, don't bitch, invent some moronic device and sell it on the Internet if you want to be a millionaire.)

Our laws regarding lawsuits SUCK. Laws and actions regarding illegal immigrants SUCK. You want to fix any of this? Then keep asking Why until you find the ROOT cause of the problem.

You want to award someone millions for spilling coffee in their lap? Why!?!?!?!? Complete and utter bullshit.

Burn the witch! Er...I mean...let's kill all the lawyers!

[Corona Gigante]

Originally Posted by AAlmeter

It has dick-diddly to do with funding anything or curing anyone. Any bozo can take a look at England and see the failures of socialism in almost every way. It is about two tag lines, "We tried to save the children" and "We fought against tobacco."

The NHS is a HUGELY popular program in the UK. Not even Margaret Thatcher or Tony Blair was able to privatize it. I agree with you, though, Adam, that only a bozo would see it as a failure.

[glking]

Originally Posted by Corona Gigante

The NHS is a HUGELY popular program in the UK.

So hugely popular that people are flocking to other countries for surgery, and pulling their own teeth.

From the Economic Times on Oct 28:

India has emerged the most popular destination for British patients wanting to undergo surgery for ailments that would otherwise take months to treat in the National Health Service (NHS).

In the first major survey of medical tourism, figures show that British citizens have travelled to 112 hospitals in 48 countries for safe, quick and affordable treatment. NHS hospitals in Britain face long waiting lists and hygiene challenged by superbugs.

The survey, conducted by the Treatment Abroad website, shows this year over 70,000 British citizens will travel abroad for medical treatment. The figure is expected to rise to 200,000 by the end of the decade.Andrew Lansley, the shadow health secretary, said the figures were a "terrible indictment" of government policies that were undermining the efforts of the NHS staff to provide quality services.

He said: "Healthcare is an area where Britain could be a world beater because we have some of the best research and best clinicians. If people don't trust the health service, then that is a terrible indictment of this government, which has turned the NHS into a nationalised bureaucracy, instead of something able to focus on what patients want."

Katherine Murphy of the Patients' Association said that the health tourism figures reflected shrinking public faith in the government's handling of the NHS.

"People are simply frightened of going to NHS hospitals, so I am not surprised the numbers going abroad are increasing so rapidly."

From Dentistry.co.uk on Oct 30 2007:

The Dentistry Watch survey, overseen by the Commission for Patient and Public Involvement in Health, asked more than 5,200 patients and 750 dentists in England for their views on today's dental service.

It found six per cent of respondents (276 people) had resorted to self-medication – including pulling out their own teeth – because they were unable to access NHS services. The survey cited a handful of examples of people who spoke of extracting teeth or fixing broken crowns with glue. One person questioned in Lancashire spoke of carrying out 14 separate extractions with pliers.

It led to a flurry of damning newspaper headlines, including ‘Rise of the DIY Dentist' and ‘Don't Call That Dentist, Hand Me the Pliers'.

Shadow Health Minister Mike Penning said the report was proof of the ‘crisis' the government had created and said: ‘It is shocking that patients are being forced to resort to Victorian practices like pulling out their own teeth.'