Congress again passes kids health bill

[AAlmeter]

Originally Posted by Bigwaved

Actually, I did make a statement and it was of my own thought. It was to say that this economy is not the strongest ever and that people are not more prosperous ever. I have no problem agreeing with you if you can show me how these claims are true.

You're putting words in my mouth! You're putting words in my mouth!

When did I say this economy was the strongest ever?

I am simply refuting any claim that we're going in the shitter. The economy has shown consistent growth over the past 5 to 10 years.

The sub-prime crisis, though huge in the news, effects a small percentage of people. Tough nuggets for them. If they were using the loans as an investment vehicle...you lost...thats investment. If they lost their house, maybe you should have thought further about buying a $250,000 house on a 40k income. And as for the lending institutions...tough nuggets for them too. Just because someone overspent and lost his house and its all over the news does not mean the economy is collapsing. It is all about taking responsibility for one's own actions. Which reminds me...why is it that I have to pay for other people's kids again?



And as far as EPI...take a look here http://www.epi.org/content.cfm/board to see how non-partisan they are. Looks like tweed is now acceptable attire for the next Apalachin Meeting.

[GOAT LOCKER]

Originally Posted by muziq

From the Economic Policy Institute, a non-partisan analysis think-tank:

SCHIP is not eroding private health coverage: http://www.epi.org/content.cfm?id=2789

Economy's gains fail to reach most workers paychecks: http://www.epi.org/content.cfm/bp195

EPI is NOT a non-partisan organisation. They are a socialist/progressive/left group founded by a Jeff Faux (his real name), that includes vehemently anti-american leadership that has called President Bush a murderer and the USA a "terrorist nation" and leaders from NINE (!) labor unions on their board of directors. No partisanship there...

[Corona Gigante]

Originally Posted by glking

So hugely popular that people are flocking to other countries for surgery, and pulling their own teeth...

Obviously you're fond of sensationalistic stories from sources of questionable impartiality. It's unfortunate that it's at that level at which you choose to participate in the debate.

I didn't say the NHS was perfect, but it does succeed at providing a basic level of healthcare to the entire population free of charge at the point of service. When I said it was popular, I didn't mean that people won't find things to grumble about, I meant that like social security in this country, it would be political suicide for any political party which attempted to discontinue the program. People with the means and the inclination can seek private medical care outside of the government run system, those without are guaranteed a basic level of service.

I am tired of quoting statistics for the number of Americans without any health coverage, the relationship between healthcare crises and personal bankruptcies, the cost of providing emergency care compared to the cost of basic health maintenance, infant mortality and life expectancy rates in the US when compared to other Western industrialized nations (almost all of which provide government run health care to their populations), etc, etc. If you're interested in the subject, you should dig around a little and inform yourself. You might be surprised by what you discover.

[muziq]

Originally Posted by GOAT LOCKER

EPI is NOT a non-partisan organisation. They are a socialist/progressive/left group founded by a Jeff Faux (his real name), that includes vehemently anti-american leadership that has called President Bush a murderer and the USA a "terrorist nation" and leaders from NINE (!) labor unions on their board of directors. No partisanship there...

1. They claim to be non-partisan. That's all I'll vouche for. Like Fox News is "fair and balanced."

2. Reading their analyses, I'd call them center-left if I had to, but enough of their periodic economic snapshots speak as positively of the economy as they do negatively, suggesting that as the economic indicators change, their analyses change. That's fact-based analysis, not partisanship.

3. I can't/won't comment on Jeff Faux, or on any of the attributes you ascribe to their "leadership." I haven't come across any evidence of that, but I'm not so concerned about it because I don't read that in the pieces from this organization. If you find one, let me know and I might change my tune, but otherwise those are worthless ad hominem attacks.

4. Labor unions? Dogging labor unions? Ugh, that's stale, especially given the degree to which their collective platform has been moving to a fundamentally protectionist argument against outsourcing in an effort to protect and grow blue-collar manufacturing and service jobs. It's a touch more complex than that tired old chestnut.

[GOAT LOCKER]

Originally Posted by muziq

1. They claim to be non-partisan. LOL! That's all I'll vouche for. Like Fox News is "fair and balanced." Fox has a news channel?

2. Reading their analyses, I'd call them center-left if I had to, but enough of their periodic economic snapshots speak as positively of the economy as they do negatively, suggesting that as the economic indicators change, their analyses change. That's fact-based analysis, not partisanship. Left, center-left, I guess it depends on ones perspective.

3. I can't/won't comment on Jeff Faux, or on any of the attributes you ascribe to their "leadership." I haven't come across any evidence of that, but I'm not so concerned about it because I don't read that in the pieces from this organization. If you find one, let me know and I might change my tune, Fair enough, but I'll let you look them up yourself. Not hard to find... but otherwise those are worthless ad hominem attacks. Ad hominem? I was challenging your assertion that EPI was non partisan. As for their report, you may refer to the CBO report for a little more balance.

4. Labor unions? Dogging labor unions? Ugh, that's stale, especially given the degree to which their collective platform has been moving to a fundamentally protectionist argument against outsourcing in an effort to protect and grow blue-collar manufacturing and service jobs. It's a touch more complex than that tired old chestnut. Um, not sure where I "dogged" labor unions. Just pointed out that the group is not exactly well rounded or non-partisan.

BTW, the CBO report predicted a large shift from private insurance to schip under the new proposal. The EPI report references figures from The Urban Institute, another left leaning organization. There is no way to know which if either is accurate, but I certainly consider the source ...

[GOAT LOCKER]

Originally Posted by muziq

3. I can't/won't comment on Jeff Faux, or on any of the attributes you ascribe to their "leadership." I haven't come across any evidence of that, but I'm not so concerned about it because I don't read that in the pieces from this organization. If you find one, let me know

OK, I said I'd let you look them up yourself, but starting with the founder and first two board member on the list;

The founder, Jeff Faux, not sure why you can't/won't comment on him, but he's right at home with the two above. He has publicly called for the impeachment of George Bush (a non-partisan position for sure), and is a darling of the progressive circuit with his published views on global government, social justice and class warfare.

Next, here is The EPI CHAIRMAN of the Board's BLOG It won't take long to figure his partisan leanings, I promise.

Next on their list of board members is Jullianne Malveaux, famous quotes include this gem on Justice Thomas: "I hope [Thomas’s] wife feeds him lots of eggs and butter, and he dies early, like many black men do, of heart disease. . . .He’s an absolutely reprehensible person." Or on President Bush: "George W. Bush is evil. He is a terrorist. He is evil. He is arrogant. And he is out of control." And there's plenty more from this non-partisan.


That's not to say some of these people are not smart, or even brilliant, or that they don't have some good ideas and valid research, but non-partisan they are not.

On topic, if America wants socialized health care, and it appears many do, we need something a lot better than SCHIP. Hopefully this will be killed again. It is unfortunate that we have reached the point where we can't have a national debate about this kind of stuff without lies, distortion and demagoguery. I'm not talking about this thread, as it has stayed pretty calm, but about our politicians and political commentators in the old/new media.

[Bigwaved]

Originally Posted by AAlmeter

You're putting words in my mouth! You're putting words in my mouth!

When did I say this economy was the strongest ever?

I am simply refuting any claim that we're going in the shitter. The economy has shown consistent growth over the past 5 to 10 years.

The sub-prime crisis, though huge in the news, effects a small percentage of people. Tough nuggets for them. If they were using the loans as an investment vehicle...you lost...thats investment. If they lost their house, maybe you should have thought further about buying a $250,000 house on a 40k income. And as for the lending institutions...tough nuggets for them too. Just because someone overspent and lost his house and its all over the news does not mean the economy is collapsing. It is all about taking responsibility for one's own actions. Which reminds me...why is it that I have to pay for other people's kids again?



And as far as EPI...take a look here http://www.epi.org/content.cfm/board to see how non-partisan they are. Looks like tweed is now acceptable attire for the next Apalachin Meeting.

I was referring to the person who said that, not you. After rereading the last sentence of my post you quote here, I can se how you would come to that conclusion. You can easily read back to find the original post that I was talking about.

[Bigwaved]

Originally Posted by GOAT LOCKER

It is unfortunate that we have reached the point where we can't have a national debate about this kind of stuff without lies, distortion and demagoguery. I'm not talking about this thread, as it has stayed pretty calm, but about our politicians and political commentators in the old/new media.

It is, isn't it? My instinct tells me that we are not alone regarding this feeling. I would like to add that it is frustrating as well.