Puff Cigar Discussion Forums

357 · 05-13-2008, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDilly

[SIZE=3]Every[/SIZE] [SIZE=1]ounce[/SIZE] [SIZE=3]of[/SIZE] [SIZE=4]POWER[/SIZE] [SIZE=3]they gain is a POUND of[/SIZE] [SIZE=7]FREEDOM[/SIZE][SIZE=3]we lose[/SIZE].

You're absolutely right. I'm crafting a letter and a list of michigan legislators. I'll post it tomorrow. That way everyone can copy and paste it and send a copy.

Mike

jagmqt · 05-13-2008, 11:59 PM

Chances are this bill is going to die...We'll know tomorrow...or at least by the end of session Thursday.

If the House amends the bill and sends it back to the Senate, the Senate won't take it up again...and the Senate won't allow any exceptions, so if the Conference Committee puts an exception for Detroit casinos, the Senate won't pass it...

jag

357 · 05-14-2008, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jagmqt

Chances are this bill is going to die...We'll know tomorrow...or at least by the end of session Thursday.

If the House amends the bill and sends it back to the Senate, the Senate won't take it up again...and the Senate won't allow any exceptions, so if the Conference Committee puts an exception for Detroit casinos, the Senate won't pass it...

jag

Sounds like you have some inside info. I hope you're right. Although, it can't hurt to let your reps know how you feel.

Jbailey · 05-14-2008, 12:30 AM

I know the Democrat Rep. for Bay City Jim Barcia is working hard for us smokers. Hes been talking with the shop owner Tim about it.

Crossing fingers here.

357 · 05-14-2008, 12:29 PM

I am writing to ask you to vote AGAINST the smoking ban, House Bill 4163 (2007). While the bill has good intent, it tramples on the rights of all property owners. Worse yet is that the good intent is based on false pretenses.

The Environmental Protection Agency, in its landmark 1993 study warned that secondhand smoke is a carcinogen that annually causes thousands of deaths from lung cancer.

However, five years after the study was released, a federal judge lambasted the EPA for "cherry picking" the data, excluding studies that "demonstrated no association between ETS (environmental tobacco smoke) and cancer."

And two years before that, the American Heart Association journal, Circulation, reported no increase in coronary heart disease associated with secondhand smoke "at work or in other settings."

So what? Maybe secondhand smoke doesn't kill people, but how about the harm to those with asthma, respiratory infections or eye allergies?

Well, listen to Jane Gravelle of the Congressional Research Service, testifying before Congress in 1994: "The statistical evidence does not appear to support a conclusion that there are substantial health effects from passive smoking."

Some argue that a ban is necessary to protect the rights of nonsmokers to be in smoke-free environments. But ban proponents misunderstand the nature of rights in a free society.

I have a right to smoke, and I also have a right not to smoke. But I only have those rights when I’m on my own property. When I voluntarily walk into someone else’s bar or restaurant, my right to smoke or not to smoke is no longer an issue, because I’m on his property, not mine. If a bar owner chooses to allow smoking on his property, that’s his choice. He has every right to allow smoking, just as he has every right to serve apple pie.

A smoking ban is an attack on freedom and an attack on property rights. Proponents of the ban want government to grant them the power to walk onto someone else’s property and have things exactly the way they want them. And that means sending the police after business owners who do not bend to their will. Property owners who refuse to comply will risk fines and jail time.

Some wish to talk about the health of workers exposed to secondhand smoke, and the scientific research that has attempted—in vain—to find a link between environmental tobacco smoke and cancer. But even if environmental tobacco smoke were proven to cause substantial health risks, there would be no cause to regulate it in private establishments. When you walk into a smoky restaurant or bar, you can tell immediately that smoke is present, and you can choose to stay or leave. For comparison, it is infinitely more difficult to detect the presence of salmonella in a chicken sandwich, so a stronger case can be made for regulating the cleanliness of restaurant kitchens.

If you are looking for a smoke-free restaurant, you are in luck. Almost all restaurants nowadays choose to have separate smoking and nonsmoking sections, if they allow smoking at all. That is the product of the free market: Over the last 40 years, as smoking has declined in America, nonsmokers have demanded smoke-free restaurants, and business owners have supplied them.

The war on tobacco started with a proven truth: primary smoke is a high-risk factor for lung cancer, bronchitis and emphysema. But that fact has mushroomed into an assortment of untruths, eroding the credibility of government agencies and the rule of law.

Smoking bans are really about unrestrained government, an anti-tobacco crusade against thousands of private businesses and millions of smokers without grounding in fairness or common sense, and without an appreciation for the principles that nourish a free society.

Please take this into consideration before voting on HB 4163 (2007)

Mike ******
##### ***** Street
Roseville, MI 48066

357 · 05-14-2008, 12:34 PM

jamesb3 · 05-16-2008, 09:42 AM

Well as of today the smoking ban has been put on hold at least for now. The House did not vote on the bill as some would like to see Bars and Casinos given exemptions on the bill. So time will tell. It's sure to come up for vote in one version or another soon enough. Could very well be some time after the upcoming elections.

borndead1 · 05-16-2008, 03:06 PM

I emailed a bunch of House members yesterday and read about 10 of the "responses". Only 1 was obviously for the ban, another used very vague language (a sign that they disagree with you) and all the others were against it.

Nice of the bastids to let THE VOTERS decide this issue isn't it?