Should Cities Ban Smoking in Public Places?

[fsjonsey]

Ask me about having my rights taken away by Obese American Cancer Society Lobbyists.
I live in Ohio.

[PipesandGOP]

Originally Posted by IHT

you should carry a card that has weblinks to the research that shows second hand smoke does absolutely nothing to bystanders. (there's a link in the pipe forum about this someplace if you search)
maybe dig up the stories about how C. Everett Coop and the EPA lied to Congress in the 80s about the effects of second hand smoke. (wish i could find those links again).

it's funny to hear it from a mother pushing a baby stroller, yet she smells like a $2 french whore - which probably has more of an effect on her kids lungs than your second hand smoke from 40+ feet away.

there's also a study that was done by the heart and lung assoc, it showed that pipe smokers live 2 yrs longer than non-smokers. (from the book "pipe dreams")

Also I just thought about it, in the Fall issue of P&T in the letters to the magazine section, someone brought up if not that same thing about the lying, something pretty damn close. Magazine's in the car and I'm too lazy to go get it but the gist of it was just a quote right from the guy doing the study basically saying "we fudged on some of the numbers and the way the tests were conducted to meet our desired result".

[gary106334]

Originally Posted by fsjonsey

Ask me about having my rights taken away by Obese American Cancer Society Lobbyists.
I live in Ohio.

Yeah, I know I visit there every year (born and raised there) and I loved going to the bar in the little town I grew up in. Having a beer and cigar with old, old (literally), old friends. Can't do it anymore. Damn.

[Legend]

At a business it should be the owners right to either allow or designate areas for smoking. Free market will decide if people don't want that.

As far as outdoor public places go. I see no harm in designating areas non-smoking. So if there are those who don't wish to be around it they can have their area. Indoor public areas I completely understand making them non-smoking. However what is called public area today is typically businesses and that's a wrong definition. This would include government areas. Etc. Places people have to go from time to time and don't choose to go.

Marijuana is just foolish to legalize. Mostly because it is a gateway drug. Most don't stop there. Also it is mind altering. While some incorrectly make the argument that alcohol is mind altering too that is not the case. It is a mild depressant but must be severely abused before any altering can take place. This is not true of marijuana. Just using it alters one.

But typical of our country as of late. Get it all backwards.

[c2000]

The wheels aren't coming off this country they are gone and we are riding on the axle and yet these bastards keep pounding away on tobacco..

Jerry in Minnesota.

[ActionAndy]

South Park had a really good episode about the Anti-Smoking Lobbyists and Rob Reiner, you should check it out if you can. Interestingly enough it was on last night. Baader-Meinhoff?

[epyon26]

Hey if these aholes whant to make pot legal then pass some schip bill on it to pay for health care for kids. Also geting back to my early point the non-smoker should shut the hell up because I pay more taxes then they do and I should in any outdoor place I want.

[PerpetualNoob]

This is a fairly long, depressing story. Sorry.

About 15 years ago, some guy here opened a restaurant in midtown, and decided to make it non-smoking. Everywhere he went, people bitched about smokers in the restaurants, so he saw the huge marketing opportunity and he jumped on it with both feet. People stayed away in droves, he went bankrupt in a few years. The place was empty for a couple more years, got bought, opened up again as a non-smoking establishment. No one went there, again, he went bankrupt, too. Same exact thing happened a THIRD time. Meanwhile, the socialist city Assembly decided for us that all restaurants should be non-smoking, only there were a handful of places that had bars in them, and they got grandfathered in. Guess where people actually went? All the people that ran the non-smoking places screamed bloody murder, "IT'S NOT FAIR!!!" Their businesses took major hits, because everyone started going to the smoking places. Once again, the socialist city Ass-embly stepped in and agreed, yes, it really was unfair, so the obvious solution was to make ALL businesses totally non-smoking. Yes, even TOBACCO STORES.

The only conclusion I can come to is, in spite of all the bitching, "the people" don't really want non-smoking restaurants, or it wouldn't need to be a law. If they did, the owners would not be able to ignore the clamor, and the smoking places would have no choice but to also go non-smoking, or lose their customer base to the ones that already are. Smoking bans are nothing more than a way for a vocal minority to impose their will on the majority. Period. It took them 15 years to do it, but they did, and there it is. That's how your rights get taken away. One at a time. If you don't like it, you're an ignorant redneck, and you don't care about THE CHILDREN.

As of 1/1/08, you can no longer smoke in Shiphol Airport. That's in Amsterdam, for godsakes. You can shoot heroin in Amsterdam, and that's OK, or you can buy and smoke pot in a cafe, and that's OK, but you can't have a cigarette in the damned airport? Out of several hundred acres, there were a few hundred square feet to smoke in, but that wasn't enough for the antis, they had to have it all. Apparently, tolerance is a good thing, as long as I don't have to tolerate anything I don't like.

Then, I was standing outside a Scottish pub having a smoke in the wind and driving rain, and several smokers told me, with a straight face, how much they support the new smoking ban. When I hear this, it makes me so sad, and so angry, I can't even come up with a coherent response.

They cut my arm off, but it was only one arm, and only from the elbow down, so I guess it's OK. They must have known what they were doing, and they said it was for my own good. I didn't even know there was anything wrong with it, until they told me.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Legend

At a business it should be the owners right to either allow or designate areas for smoking. Free market will decide if people don't want that.

As far as outdoor public places go. I see no harm in designating areas non-smoking. So if there are those who don't wish to be around it they can have their area. Indoor public areas I completely understand making them non-smoking. However what is called public area today is typically businesses and that's a wrong definition. This would include government areas. Etc. Places people have to go from time to time and don't choose to go.

Marijuana is just foolish to legalize. Mostly because it is a gateway drug. Most don't stop there. Also it is mind altering. While some incorrectly make the argument that alcohol is mind altering too that is not the case. It is a mild depressant but must be severely abused before any altering can take place. This is not true of marijuana. Just using it alters one.

But typical of our country as of late. Get it all backwards.

With a tremendous amount of respect for you and your opinions (I always enjoy your input), I have to disagree. If you ever came home from a bar with a one eyed wildebeast with "born to lose" tattooed on her forehead and thought she was the catch of the day, you would realize that alcohol is far more mind altering that the weed IMHO.

[Shaz]

In Canada, many of the Provinces have legislated smoking bans in public places. The restaurants and bar business has suffered as a result. (more the bar business). Some of the bars in smaller towns had to close down altogether. It's believed that many people would have private parties instead. We had a couple of great cigar bars. I miss that. I do enjoy a (cigarette) smoke free bar though.
My wife smokes cigs, but I don't. Now when we go to a restaurant, she always wants to sit out on the patio, so she can smoke. I don't mind most of the time. But if I go to an elegant restaurant, I don't really want to be sitting on the patio. Part of the experience is the ambiance of the place. And up here, it's winter 7 months out of the year. So, alas, we don't go out as often as we used to.
Not sure what the answer is, but it would be nice if we could somehow accomodate both sides.

[ActionAndy]

Is it crass to admit that I sincerely don't care about the children?

[ongreystreet]

They always want to tax the so called recreational things, alcohol, smoke, gambling. Smoking is going out the door and gambling in.

I keep telling all these people that are so happy that bars are smoke free, that the alcohol taxes are next. When they are done taxing tobacco and alcohol to death, years later they are going to tell everyone how dangerous their Starbucks and energy drinks are and how the gov't will tax that too.

[gary106334]

Originally Posted by PerpetualNoob

You can shoot heroin in Amsterdam, and that's OK, or you can buy and smoke pot in a cafe, and that's OK, but you can't have a cigarette in the damned airport?

What I don't understand about this is: If second hand smoke (I know there is no conclusive proof on second hand smoke) is bad from cigarettes, pipes, and cigars then why is it not bad from pot?

[Legend]

Originally Posted by scottw

With a tremendous amount of respect for you and your opinions (I always enjoy your input), I have to disagree. If you ever came home from a bar with a one eyed wildebeast with "born to lose" tattooed on her forehead and thought she was the catch of the day, you would realize that alcohol is far more mind altering that the weed IMHO.

No offense Scott. As I stated it takes abuse to be mind altering with alcohol.

[PerpetualNoob]

Originally Posted by fsjonsey

Ask me about having my rights taken away by Obese American Cancer Society Lobbyists.
I live in Ohio.

I don't even fully understand her reasoning for it, but my Mom is an anti-tobacco-ist, almost to the point of being a psychosis. She did volunteer work for the ACS for years, until she found out how they badly they squander their donation dollars. I don't really know the details of it, but now she hates them, almost as much as she does tobacco. She was drinking the ACS Kool-Aid from a beer bong, so if she says they're full of crap, that's good enough for me, at least until some contrary evidence is presented.