Can You Say "NATIONALIZED HEALTHCARE"

[Cigar Diva]

Originally Posted by Labman

Wiser words were never spoken, Lynn. They are just trying to make an example out of tobacco companies. Unfortunately, for us, they are targeting the little guys...i.e. the cigar companies. If they really wanted to make money for their SCHIP, they would go after the huge cigarette industry.

Or how about the fast food industry that is causing some of the health care problems for the "CHILDREN". Lets put a 20,000% tax on Big Mac's or Kid's Meals.

[Cigar Diva]

Originally Posted by JohnRider

I am really hoping for that VETO! Something tells me, a deal will be worked out that WE WON'T LIKE!

I have looked at your post several times and I would like to know what your thinking is in hoping for a VETO. It is not the first time I have heard that Bush will veto the bill, I just have not seen, historically, anything to indicate that would happen.

[happy1]

Originally Posted by Cigar Diva

Or how about the fast food industry that is causing some of the health care problems for the "CHILDREN". Lets put a 20,000% tax on Big Mac's or Kid's Meals.

Amen Brother what are they going to do when they dont get the money they thought they would? They need to reform the medicaid system and contoll all the b*llshit spending

[lawdaug_1]

It just shows you how stupid their line of thinking is, Lets put a huge tax on cigars for the kids but if we can not afford the cigars their would be no money for the kids. They are not thinking!!!! DAAAAH

[havanitascigars-cl]

Part of the problem here is us and the tobacco industry. For years, whenever any government (state or federal) needed more money they proposed a tobacco tax and we accepted it. When smoking bans are put in place, we accept it. Sure, we send letters to officials, but what threat can we make, "I won't vote for you"? We are a minority and they know it. They also know most people will not make their decision based on views on tobacco, but on other things.

We also allow people to say, "I do not care if they tax tobacco. I do not smoke." We need to educate the public on why we should be allowed to continue to smoke if we choose. We need to explain to them how the governmnet bans our passion this time, but what will be next? The Big Macs mentioned above are on the block. New York has already attempted to restrict fast food.

The industry needs to form a strong coalition. Often these cigar companies and tobacco companies keep to themselves because they are too small to do anything alone. The larger companies are based overseas and do not concern themselves with taxes here.

The tobacco industry needs to unite like the alcohol industry does. Do you think Anheuser-Busch would allow this legislation to go through? They would lobby and fight. Imagine trying to enforce an alcohol ban. It has been tried and it failed. The industry would not allow such a ban to happen again.

As I said in another thread, the Constitution is designed to protect the rights of individual groups from mob rule. What other example can you find of the mob trampling on the rights of a small group than in the case of tobacco use?

[PremiumsOnly]

Originally Posted by Cigar Diva

I have looked at your post several times and I would like to know what your thinking is in hoping for a VETO. It is not the first time I have heard that Bush will veto the bill, I just have not seen, historically, anything to indicate that would happen.

It has been mentioned in many national news headlines. You can read one mention of it at http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/78550.php

[shrtcrt-cl]

I thought the President could not veto it since it got enough votes. This tax makes no sense at all and the back tax is just stupid. Lets look at the crazy cost of health care in this country. Why is a 5 minute visit with the dr. over $100! How crazy is that. Lets spend money on teaching people to eat fresh and non processed foods. The growth of fast food and over processed food has caused the health care problems, not enjoying a fine cigar.

[Cigar Diva]

Originally Posted by shrtcrt

I thought the President could not veto it since it got enough votes. This tax makes no sense at all and the back tax is just stupid. Lets look at the crazy cost of health care in this country. Why is a 5 minute visit with the dr. over $100! How crazy is that. Lets spend money on teaching people to eat fresh and non processed foods. The growth of fast food and over processed food has caused the health care problems, not enjoying a fine cigar.

My understanding of the way the legislation stands at this point is that both the house and senate passed "SCHIPS" legislation with a substantial tobacco tax increase with a moderate (as compared to the other categories of tobacco) increase in cigarette tobacco tax. Pipe tobacco would jump about 300%, roll your own cigarette tobacco about 800%, and cigar tax increase is somewhere between 2,000% and 20,000%. Since the bills passed out of their respective bodies differently, it now goes to "committee" in an attempt to find something the house and senate can both agree upon. Historically, committees are heavily weighted with supporters/co-authors of the bill.

The President can veto any legislation but with enough votes (3/4), the legislative bodies can override the President's veto. The senate (THANK YOU KAY (THROW AMERICANS UNDER THE BUS) BAILEY HUTCHINSON) has enough support to override a veto, but the house does not. Bush does not have a great track record for vetoing bad/poor legislation and I have grave concerns that this legislation will be any different.

[CBCyclone]

NATIONALIZED HEALTHCARE...it sounded good in the beginning.

Not to me it didn't. I refuse to work my ass off to pay for health care for some lazy f**k who wants to sit on his ass watching TV and drinking beer all day! And that's waht natiinalized health care ends up doing, giving coverage to those who CAN work but choose to be lazy and unproductive.

[shrtcrt-cl]

Originally Posted by Cigar Diva

Why should they start now? After All, John Edwards stated that gun ownership is a privilege and NOT a right. I guess he as a different version of the Constitution than I do.

I have the same version that you do, and that CCW permit I have in my wallet and 9mm on my side proves it. Sorry but if someone who does not care about being a law abiding citizen will carry, then someone who WANTS to obey the laws should be able to.


I don't think anyone knows what is going on anymore. Why we let anyone have this much control over things is outrageous. Lets look at the REAL reasons people are sick, quality of food, and too many prescription pills. When I start feeling bad, I don't think that I need to pop a pill or take some drugs, al though sometimes I do a shot of NyQuill and it goes away. But for the most part I take like to take anything. People just want to take a pill and make it go away. Lets do something about that.

[pv1191-cl]

Cali Tax retail tax for hand rolled cigars is 47%. I was looking at starting a distributorship or even a B&M until I found that out. OUCH! Now I understand why Curly Heads are $4 to $6 each in the stores here.

[nativetexan_1]

My problem with nationalized heathcare is that, try as you might, you can't find authorization for Congress to get into it in the Constitution. Doesn't Congress still have to follow the Constitution? If so, where do they find such authorization? We haven't given them cart blanc to do as they please have we? Send 'em packing.

[Sea Jay]

Originally Posted by CBCyclone

Not to me it didn't. I refuse to work my ass off to pay for health care for some lazy f**k who wants to sit on his ass watching TV and drinking beer all day! And that's waht natiinalized health care ends up doing, giving coverage to those who CAN work but choose to be lazy and unproductive.

You took the words out of my mouth.

Cigar Diva - I also live in Texas and share your thoughts about Hutchinson. As if we don't already pay enough money in property taxes. I paid less in Florida where I lived right on the Atlantic ocean. I live in a small middle class home now in Texas and pay nearly $5,000 in property taxes. This is robbery!

[stig-cl]

Originally Posted by nativetexan_1

My problem with nationalized heathcare is that, try as you might, you can't find authorization for Congress to get into it in the Constitution. Doesn't Congress still have to follow the Constitution? If so, where do they find such authorization? We haven't given them cart blanc to do as they please have we? Send 'em packing.

The Constitution is by no means comprehensive, and all three branches of the federal government have taken on powers not specifically designated in the Constitution. If Congress steps over the line, the execute and judicial branches will step in and keep them in check.

[JeffyB-cl]

My feelings on this SCHIP thing is to tax the things that are actually making kids sick, causing diabetes, etc... - tax the video game systems/cartridges, fast food, sodas, high fructose corn syrup food items, etc.

Since this program is a "mandatory funded" program, it needs to have funding coming in. If everyone who currently smokes quits/purchases online/black market, there's no tax income coming into the system, and something else would have to be taxed. In addition, one quote I saw was that the Dems need 20-40,000 *NEW* smokers to fund this program for the duration that they want.

The thing that really p!sses me off about what the Dems want is that the program would include families that make up to 60K/year, increase the eligibility cut-off age from 18 to 23 or 24, and make it so that no documentation of citizenship would be needed to enroll in the program - can we say ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS being eligible? Sorry, I don't want to be paying for them...

Just my $.02...