The Thorn in the Side

[Stogie]

Originally Posted by tx_tuff

I agree with Cliff on this, and wouldn't a great place to start be on the steps of the State Capital in Texas since they want to create a state ban (has been talked about before). Maybe we can get the Governor to smoke one with us!

I am serious about this guys and I want to really think this all thru. Maybe we can create a meet up just to talk about this.

[Stogie]

Originally Posted by happy1

Hell yes we need to be heard on this!!!Give'r hell Daniel

I got nothing to loose and everything to gain as long as I have people that support me. I have never been scared and will not start now. I am getting pumped up.

[Stogie]

Originally Posted by Cigary

I believe there is power in numbers and there certainly is power when you protest in a way that makes others look at what you are trying to do. If you protest like a bunch of out of control school kids then you will be judged as such. However, if you protest in a way that gives you credibility as to what you are protesting then not only will you gain empathy but you will advance your message to many others, up to and including the press, TV, magazines, etc. That means you collectively get together peacefully, do not agitate others and be ready to have those people who are very articulate advance your message. The worse thing in the world is to have those who want to be loud and obnoxious as your spokespeople. The more professional you act the more you will be seen as people who are respectful and will be judged accordingly. My 2 cents on this.

Yes I am a very calm person and that is why I really want to think thing thru.

[Stogie]

Originally Posted by jitzy

I think these are all great ideas however I really think you should first look at hooking up with the CRA and maybe even DOC Stogie fresh who is also working on an event in California. Now it seams there are a few different things going on we may be able to get some of the attention and respect we all deserve. Also maybe you and Jon could talk about and discuss this with the CRA if you are gonna do a pay section here maybe a CRA membership included in that would bennifit everyone. Just a thought.

Very good idea I an very aware of the CRA but I also do not know if they would support something like this. I guess the only way to find out is to come up with a game plan and then present it to them.

[Stogie]

Originally Posted by Damsel

I agree....I think the collective we've seen formed here and with the other sites under the one, definitely works in our favor. I see the question as being, do we demonstrate or do we lobby behind the scenes, by joining in the efforts of the associations, such as CRA, The Cigar Association of America, and of course, The Association for Women Cigar Smokers? Do we form a board to handle the business of advancing our position with the associations? I think organization is the key to success, and by becoming the largest network speaks hugely to the importance and clout we will have. I say we stay away from any massive demonstrations, and take the position - Walk Softly but Carry a Big Stick....That's just my 2 cents.

I believe lobbying is great but I think we need to be seen in some fashion but like said before we have to do it in the right way. We need to research everything in the state and be well withing the law and kick the stereotype some people may have of cigar smokers.

[Stogie]

Originally Posted by Damsel

I agree with T...I think driving home the difference between cigarette smoking and cigars is key...In my view, we're being categorized under the dangers of cigarette smoking, and the taxation increase to all tobacco products... The challenge we're faced with is to clearly define the difference in cigar smoking. We must educate the public on our culture, our history, our community and the art of fine cigar smoking. I think showing that cigar smoking is more than "fiending" for the dangers of nicotine, should be part of a media campaign...we have to differentiate ourselves...

and yes, it can work...

We also need to remember something. When people protested years ago they did not use the technology we have today. We can use this as a bigger stick. Even some things as simple as a projector with a slide show or movie showing the difference between cigar smoking and cigarettes can be blasted on the the wall of a building. I am not saying do this but at least we need to try to use technology or think outside the box.

[Cigary]

I applaud Daniel for stepping up not only as an Administrator but like all of us on here we are cigar advocates and love our hobby. The challenges we have ahead of us are being able to plan and advance our agenda while not stepping on the toes of those people who do not agree with our hobby and we know that there are a lot of people who lobby everyday against us. We need a strategy that employs new ideas that will mimic the alcohol industry in ways that they get their message out because we are aware that alcohol addiction and medical issues plague this industry just as much if not more than cigars. Yet, they are able to appeal to both sides of the argument and the industry is successful. The general public has to be educated in the area of what cigars are all about and why people smoke them, not to be portrayed as the snobs most non smoking cigar people think we are. Perception is reality in their eyes and we need to break that perception much like the alcohol industry does when advertising their product. When done in moderation it is a viable and popular hobby and in most cases the people who endulge this hobby are everday people who need to be seen as well adjusted, happy and more contented individuals. It is a relaxing hobby where people get together and enjoy each others company and is a catalyst for getting people together to enjoy life. These are things we need to promote rather than trying to defend cigars from a health point of view because we will lose that argument. Cigars along with other forms of entertainment have to weighed with the element of risk, just like alcohol, just like partaking in events in life that can be risky and we need to push that in regards to a hobby that we enjoy. Like it or not the anti smoking lobby is very powerful and their main argument is secondhand smoke and we need to be able to debate that argument successfully without provoking their sentiment. We need to make the battleground not about health but about choice in what we enjoy and to be respectful of those around us,,,a compromise of sorts because that is what it will end up being. The anti smoking lobby is beating us like a drum on health issues and that is why they are gaining on this initiative and states are banning smoking places which is absurd. That is like having a bar and banning alcohol. If we aren't smart about this on how we get the message out the rug will be pulled out long before we put the padding down. Last words on this is don't make the fight about health but rather about choice just like the other causes use. Good luck to all of us as this is going to be an uphill battle but the more we keep our eye on the ball and not look like angry self absorbed snobs the better off we will be. People need to see us as they themselves want to be seen,,,as people who wish to endulge in their hobby who don't wish to push their hobby into others lives. Remember, perception becomes reality and we need to make friends with other lobbying groups so that our agenda moves forward. We have some very astute and responsible members on our cigar sites who are very very articulate and we need to utilize these talents in the days and weeks to come. I think with Mr. Caputos clout in this industry it can be done in such a way that advances this message to the masses but in a way that promotes it successfully.

[Diana]

Thanks Gary for your post! Daniel and I are actually reading what you have written. Well I am reading it aloud as Daniel edits videos. Makes alot of sense when we read it from your point of view. AWESOME!!!!!

[jitzy]

Originally Posted by Stogie

Very good idea I an very aware of the CRA but I also do not know if they would support something like this. I guess the only way to find out is to come up with a game plan and then present it to them.

try talking to pete he's very active in the CRA

[Damsel-cl]

Originally Posted by Stogie

We also need to remember something. When people protested years ago they did not use the technology we have today. We can use this as a bigger stick. Even some things as simple as a projector with a slide show or movie showing the difference between cigar smoking and cigarettes can be blasted on the the wall of a building. I am not saying do this but at least we need to try to use technology or think outside the box.

Absolutely, I think technology is the way to go! We can now reach far more people than ever before Daniel....among the internet strategies, you might consider an email campaign?

.....I think it may be wise, and I'm sure you and Jon are taking this point under consideration, would be to plan this just as you would any new venture...and one of your first tasks might be to craft the identity of the campaign....Maybe this is my chromosones talking but, I think if we show a much gentler side which reflects our rich history? here's another one of my corny mantras "you can catch more bees with honey than you can with vinegar"...I say that to say this... we have been portrayed as the big bad smoking goblin - anywhere from elitist to red neck, from confused women to vixen's of ****...sorry, u all know I've done my research...lol...we must get the true impression of who we all are out there...

btw...thanks Daniel for this thread!

[Damsel-cl]

I totally agree with Gary's thoughts on this...we have to take the eyes away from the health issues, and bring more of a focus on the cultural and hobbyist side of cigar smoking...

[Damsel-cl]

Originally Posted by Diana

Thanks Gary for your post! Daniel and I are actually reading what you have written. Well I am reading it aloud as Daniel edits videos. Makes alot of sense when we read it from your point of view. AWESOME!!!!!

Hi Diana!!!

[BigBuddha76]

a herf on the national mall...I'll have a couple cigars when I'm up there for the "tents of hope"

[ylo2na-cl]

Originally Posted by Cigary

I applaud Daniel for stepping up not only as an Administrator but like all of us on here we are cigar advocates and love our hobby. The challenges we have ahead of us are being able to plan and advance our agenda while not stepping on the toes of those people who do not agree with our hobby and we know that there are a lot of people who lobby everyday against us. We need a strategy that employs new ideas that will mimic the alcohol industry in ways that they get their message out because we are aware that alcohol addiction and medical issues plague this industry just as much if not more than cigars. Yet, they are able to appeal to both sides of the argument and the industry is successful. The general public has to be educated in the area of what cigars are all about and why people smoke them, not to be portrayed as the snobs most non smoking cigar people think we are. Perception is reality in their eyes and we need to break that perception much like the alcohol industry does when advertising their product. When done in moderation it is a viable and popular hobby and in most cases the people who endulge this hobby are everday people who need to be seen as well adjusted, happy and more contented individuals. It is a relaxing hobby where people get together and enjoy each others company and is a catalyst for getting people together to enjoy life. These are things we need to promote rather than trying to defend cigars from a health point of view because we will lose that argument. Cigars along with other forms of entertainment have to weighed with the element of risk, just like alcohol, just like partaking in events in life that can be risky and we need to push that in regards to a hobby that we enjoy. Like it or not the anti smoking lobby is very powerful and their main argument is secondhand smoke and we need to be able to debate that argument successfully without provoking their sentiment. We need to make the battleground not about health but about choice in what we enjoy and to be respectful of those around us,,,a compromise of sorts because that is what it will end up being. The anti smoking lobby is beating us like a drum on health issues and that is why they are gaining on this initiative and states are banning smoking places which is absurd. That is like having a bar and banning alcohol. If we aren't smart about this on how we get the message out the rug will be pulled out long before we put the padding down. Last words on this is don't make the fight about health but rather about choice just like the other causes use. Good luck to all of us as this is going to be an uphill battle but the more we keep our eye on the ball and not look like angry self absorbed snobs the better off we will be. People need to see us as they themselves want to be seen,,,as people who wish to endulge in their hobby who don't wish to push their hobby into others lives. Remember, perception becomes reality and we need to make friends with other lobbying groups so that our agenda moves forward. We have some very astute and responsible members on our cigar sites who are very very articulate and we need to utilize these talents in the days and weeks to come. I think with Mr. Caputos clout in this industry it can be done in such a way that advances this message to the masses but in a way that promotes it successfully.

Gary,
Well said! I think when you take the message we are advocating out of the health arena and put it on the "choice" level, it is an easier sell in getting our message across in a more positive, acceptable manner. Also, perception is really reality and this is an excellent point. We need to keep this fact in the forefront regarding the planning and direction our group pursues. As a grassroots movement, we certainly have the numbers, knowledge and intellectual skill(s) to make a worthwhile effort in promoting our hobby.
Let the planning begin....
Best,
ylo2na

[happy1]

Can we get a link to the CRA?