The Thorn in the Side

[Stogie]

Hey guys I wanted to ask a question and talk a bit about my view on the cigar legislation. I totally understand that writing to politicians voices our concerns to the right people but I have a question.

Do you think more could be done if a true grass roots effort of true cigar smokers gathering in public was done? I know it is hard to get people organized to even make it to cigar events but would getting permission meaning the correct permits and gathering in some sort of public form get more politicians attention? Would we be looked upon as trouble makers?

My Thought: Now that we will have the largest community we will also have the largest amount of hard core smokers. I believe that we will have a very strong voice as long as we can organize it. Personally I have always felt that I wanted to pursue this sort of action in being a Thorn in the Side of the people making the smoking bans and if we can get organized enough I believe it could do some good.

Please do not take it that I want to march on every city, instead I want to gather with others in a effort that maximizes our energy. Then take a bit of action to get our voice heard.

p.s. If my wife reads this I promise not to get into too much trouble.

[The EVP]

I think we would be looked as being a Thorn in the Side, but I'm perfectly fine with pissing off the people who try to tell me what to do!

P.S. - If my wife reads this: Please come and bail me out honey!

[tekhnu]

Having been involved in similar demonstrations back in my activist days during the 80's I think it's a good idea. I know how hard it is to pull off. Sometimes the very hotels and eating places enforcing the smoking ban cash in when a lot of people come to town. You may also want to think of this: Work to not benefit the local economy other than tobacco. No hotels, demonstrate and leave. Don't even use the local public transportation, rent charter a bus. Bring your own food, water, Port-a-Potty and the like. Clean up everything then go home.

Public Demonstrations itself won't bring about change. They are designed to bring attention to an issue. Expect no more than that as an outcome. Once you get everyones attention you can put an action plan in place using those who step forward to bring about change.

[tx_tuff]

I agree with Cliff on this, and wouldn't a great place to start be on the steps of the State Capital in Texas since they want to create a state ban (has been talked about before). Maybe we can get the Governor to smoke one with us!

[happy1]

Hell yes we need to be heard on this!!!Give'r hell Daniel

[Cigary]

I believe there is power in numbers and there certainly is power when you protest in a way that makes others look at what you are trying to do. If you protest like a bunch of out of control school kids then you will be judged as such. However, if you protest in a way that gives you credibility as to what you are protesting then not only will you gain empathy but you will advance your message to many others, up to and including the press, TV, magazines, etc. That means you collectively get together peacefully, do not agitate others and be ready to have those people who are very articulate advance your message. The worse thing in the world is to have those who want to be loud and obnoxious as your spokespeople. The more professional you act the more you will be seen as people who are respectful and will be judged accordingly. My 2 cents on this.

[Doogie]

I'm in,if someone wants to organize in NY. great idea Daniel

[jitzy]

I think these are all great ideas however I really think you should first look at hooking up with the CRA and maybe even DOC Stogie fresh who is also working on an event in California. Now it seams there are a few different things going on we may be able to get some of the attention and respect we all deserve. Also maybe you and Jon could talk about and discuss this with the CRA if you are gonna do a pay section here maybe a CRA membership included in that would bennifit everyone. Just a thought.

[Diana]

Originally Posted by Cigary

I believe there is power in numbers and there certainly is power when you protest in a way that makes others look at what you are trying to do. If you protest like a bunch of out of control school kids then you will be judged as such. However, if you protest in a way that gives you credibility as to what you are protesting then not only will you gain empathy but you will advance your message to many others, up to and including the press, TV, magazines, etc. That means you collectively get together peacefully, do not agitate others and be ready to have those people who are very articulate advance your message. The worse thing in the world is to have those who want to be loud and obnoxious as your spokespeople. The more professional you act the more you will be seen as people who are respectful and will be judged accordingly. My 2 cents on this.

Very well said Gary, I totally agree with your statement!

[Damsel-cl]

Originally Posted by Cigary

I believe there is power in numbers and there certainly is power when you protest in a way that makes others look at what you are trying to do. If you protest like a bunch of out of control school kids then you will be judged as such. However, if you protest in a way that gives you credibility as to what you are protesting then not only will you gain empathy but you will advance your message to many others, up to and including the press, TV, magazines, etc. That means you collectively get together peacefully, do not agitate others and be ready to have those people who are very articulate advance your message. The worse thing in the world is to have those who want to be loud and obnoxious as your spokespeople. The more professional you act the more you will be seen as people who are respectful and will be judged accordingly. My 2 cents on this.

I agree....I think the collective we've seen formed here and with the other sites under the one, definitely works in our favor. I see the question as being, do we demonstrate or do we lobby behind the scenes, by joining in the efforts of the associations, such as CRA, The Cigar Association of America, and of course, The Association for Women Cigar Smokers? Do we form a board to handle the business of advancing our position with the associations? I think organization is the key to success, and by becoming the largest network speaks hugely to the importance and clout we will have. I say we stay away from any massive demonstrations, and take the position - Walk Softly but Carry a Big Stick....That's just my 2 cents.

[tekhnu]

Originally Posted by Cigary

I believe there is power in numbers and there certainly is power when you protest in a way that makes others look at what you are trying to do. If you protest like a bunch of out of control school kids then you will be judged as such. However, if you protest in a way that gives you credibility as to what you are protesting then not only will you gain empathy but you will advance your message to many others, up to and including the press, TV, magazines, etc. That means you collectively get together peacefully, do not agitate others and be ready to have those people who are very articulate advance your message. The worse thing in the world is to have those who want to be loud and obnoxious as your spokespeople. The more professional you act the more you will be seen as people who are respectful and will be judged accordingly. My 2 cents on this.

Understood. The press has a way of finding the most inarticulate person in the crowd and putting their face in front of a movement. Controlling that is a challenge. Educating the members to a well defined agenda is a key component. Everyone has to be on the same page so that the message is the same no matter who has a mike shoved in their face.

Originally Posted by jitzy

I think these are all great ideas however I really think you should first look at hooking up with the CRA and maybe even DOC Stogie fresh who is also working on an event in California. Now it seams there are a few different things going on we may be able to get some of the attention and respect we all deserve. Also maybe you and Jon could talk about and discuss this with the CRA if you are gonna do a pay section here maybe a CRA membership included in that would bennifit everyone. Just a thought.

I agree. Collective alliance is always key in any movement. I don't believe in reinventing the wheel. There are existing organizations that have made progress already. We should join forces where it makes since and join the organization itself if need be. The main thing is to show that we are not just a single group out kicking up dust. Any and all like minded organizations moving to push a common cause not only increases your strength in numbers but also divides the effort resulting in less burden physically and financially on any one group.

[goyankees]

I don't think it will work, its all about the "smoke related" illnesses and how it effects medicare funds... I mean look at all the money states make on tobacco yet they are looking to ban it..

I had a great conversation with a rep, I forget who... He took the time to explain to me how companies like Altadis and General are against the CRA. The way he explained it is they make so little money on cigars compared to other things the ban would not effect them.

Even if SCHIPP passes and raises tobacco taxes 50% of the retail cost they will still want to ban smoking and pass up on all the tobacco taxes....

As many of you know I am trying to open a smoking lounge/store in the Bronx and what used to take 4 weeks to get licenses I am now hearing that it will take me 3 months to do so which will cause the state to lose out on revenue....

Smoking is this generations prohibition except it is global...

[tekhnu]

Originally Posted by nyisles

I don't think it will work, its all about the "smoke related" illnesses and how it effects medicare funds... I mean look at all the money states make on tobacco yet they are looking to ban it..

I had a great conversation with a rep, I forget who... He took the time to explain to me how companies like Altadis and General are against the CRA. The way he explained it is they make so little money on cigars compared to other things the ban would not effect them.

Even if SCHIPP passes and raises tobacco taxes 50% of the retail cost they will still want to ban smoking and pass up on all the tobacco taxes....

As many of you know I am trying to open a smoking lounge/store in the Bronx and what used to take 4 weeks to get licenses I am now hearing that it will take me 3 months to do so which will cause the state to lose out on revenue....

Smoking is this generations prohibition except it is global...

You make some valid points. My understanding is that there are no health issues with cigars when done in moderation. One of the key things in increasing the cigar smokers voice nationally and globally regarding cigars in general is to raise awareness to the methods in which cigars can be enjoyed safely and to highlight the difference from cigarettes. There is more to be gained from the relaxation relieving stress that outweighs the risk associated with cigars.

You take a much greater risk when you get behind the wheel in a car. Pro-safety advocates organized to make car driving less of a risk which forced the manufacturers build safer cars and drivers to drive more responsibly.

So, I totally disagree with your point. The idea put forth by Daniel can and will work. I think you are shooting it down before understanding the overall agenda.

[Damsel-cl]

Originally Posted by tekhnu

You make some valid points. My understanding is that there are no health issues with cigars when done in moderation. One of the key things in increasing the cigar smokers voice nationally and globally regarding cigars in general is to raise awareness to the methods in which cigars can be enjoyed safely and to highlight the difference from cigarettes. There is more to be gained from the relaxation relieving stress that outweighs the risk associated with cigars.

You take a much greater risk when you get behind the wheel in a car. Pro-safety advocates organized to make car driving less of a risk which forced the manufacturers build safer cars and drivers to drive more responsibly.

So, I totally disagree with your point. The idea put forth by Daniel can and will work. I think you are shooting it down before understanding the overall agenda.

I agree with T...I think driving home the difference between cigarette smoking and cigars is key...In my view, we're being categorized under the dangers of cigarette smoking, and the taxation increase to all tobacco products... The challenge we're faced with is to clearly define the difference in cigar smoking. We must educate the public on our culture, our history, our community and the art of fine cigar smoking. I think showing that cigar smoking is more than "fiending" for the dangers of nicotine, should be part of a media campaign...we have to differentiate ourselves...

and yes, it can work...

[Stogie]

Originally Posted by tekhnu

Having been involved in similar demonstrations back in my activist days during the 80's I think it's a good idea. I know how hard it is to pull off. Sometimes the very hotels and eating places enforcing the smoking ban cash in when a lot of people come to town. You may also want to think of this: Work to not benefit the local economy other than tobacco. No hotels, demonstrate and leave. Don't even use the local public transportation, rent charter a bus. Bring your own food, water, Port-a-Potty and the like. Clean up everything then go home.

Public Demonstrations itself won't bring about change. They are designed to bring attention to an issue. Expect no more than that as an outcome. Once you get everyones attention you can put an action plan in place using those who step forward to bring about change.

Awesome Bro thanks for the insight.