SCHIP Casualties...

[T_Money]

Originally Posted by Puro_Angler

Not necessarily. Those people who make more money than you do will have to pay an out of pocket expense to cover premiums and/or co-pays. CHIP is not medicaid. Parents, depending on income and household size, will pay certain amounts based on a sliding scale. Of course, this varies state to state and is the current way things are running. I don't know whether this will change or not based on the new plan. Also keep in mind that CHIP insurance is an alternative to standard health insurance, which is expensive and to a certain degree, useless. Standard health insurance often denies or limits the amount of treatment a child (and adults) gets to minimize expenditures.
I understand that the SCHIP bill will severly impact our hobby and pleasure, but lets look at the big picture -- Millions of uninsured children. I work for a non-profit organization that treats children in desperate need of care, most who are uninsured and have no place else to go. Most of the time treatments per child are few and we must rely on parents/caregivers heeding our advice and doing the best they can at home.
An even bigger picture: The staggeing amount of children being diagnosed with autism or in the group of autism spectrum disorders. I'm sure many of you have heard something about autism within the past few years. There's a reason for that -- 1 in 150 children are diagnosed with the disorder. If you've never met or seen a person with ASD, chances are you will soon. The causes of autism are still very debatable and I will leave it at that, I think I've said enough.
This is a very hard line to draw for me, as I'm a passionate cigar smoker. However, I'm more concerned about the rising number of sick kids. I say lets give this a chance and see what happens.

This is the kind of thinking that lead us into this mess to begin with. You think that children not getting the care they need is bad, right? The question that should be answered isn't whether kids not getting care is bad, it is whether or not the government (which is the only entity in this country with the implicit and express power to forcefully take your resources) should fund the program through taxation. If you give a shit about progress and individual rights, the answer is a blindingly obvious, NO! But people like you, with bleeding hearts (which isn't neccessarily a bad thing) decide that it's ok to violate individual rights for a "greater good" that you cannot define.

[Brule]

This is the problem with the "democracy" we, as a country, have shifted toward compared to the constitutional republic which the US was founded as. If 51% of the population can randomly do whatever it wishes to the other 49%, that is NOT freedom. The ability to go after a unpopular minority (such as smokers) is a slap in the face to every single citizen, smoker or not.

By the way, is there a defined date as to when exactly this tax will kick in? I haven't bought any smokes for awhile (winter, nowhere to smoke regularly) but want to make sure and buy a few boxes before it is too late.

[hotreds]

March 30 is what I've heard. And you are correct- that is why our friends are trying to put(and have just about succeeded)51% of the voting population on the government payroll in one way or another. That way, they will continue in power forever- who will kill the golden goose that pays you to sit on your growing butt to watch soap operas and reality TV? If you have kids and grandkids, you need to be very afraid!

[Puro_Angler]

Originally Posted by T_Money

This is the kind of thinking that lead us into this mess to begin with. You think that children not getting the care they need is bad, right? The question that should be answered isn't whether kids not getting care is bad, it is whether or not the government (which is the only entity in this country with the implicit and express power to forcefully take your resources) should fund the program through taxation. If you give a shit about progress and individual rights, the answer is a blindingly obvious, NO! But people like you, with bleeding hearts (which isn't neccessarily a bad thing) decide that it's ok to violate individual rights for a "greater good" that you cannot define.

What progress and individual rights has the past eight (10,12,16) years gotten us? There's no bleeding heart here, I'm just calling it like I see it. Facts were all I pointed out. Sorry it rubbed you the wrong way.

[RaiderinKS]

Originally Posted by LibertyToad

Yeah, it's a mess. YoBama rushes in his spending package since it is such an "emergency" and then jets off here to Chicago for a 3-day weekend. So much for the "emergency". It never was an emergency in the first place anyway, since most of the spending won't occur for another 18 months.

It could be worse, you could live here in Chicago. The home of corrupt politicians and the Democratic Machine.

It's going to be a long 4 years....

Where are you getting your bogus information? Have you read the ARRA?

[FN in MT]

Originally Posted by Puro_Angler

Not necessarily. Those people who make more money than you do will have to pay an out of pocket expense to cover premiums and/or co-pays. CHIP is not medicaid. Parents, depending on income and household size, will pay certain amounts based on a sliding scale. Of course, this varies state to state and is the current way things are running. I don't know whether this will change or not based on the new plan. Also keep in mind that CHIP insurance is an alternative to standard health insurance, which is expensive and to a certain degree, useless. Standard health insurance often denies or limits the amount of treatment a child (and adults) gets to minimize expenditures.
I understand that the SCHIP bill will severly impact our hobby and pleasure, but lets look at the big picture -- Millions of uninsured children. I work for a non-profit organization that treats children in desperate need of care, most who are uninsured and have no place else to go. Most of the time treatments per child are few and we must rely on parents/caregivers heeding our advice and doing the best they can at home.
An even bigger picture: The staggeing amount of children being diagnosed with autism or in the group of autism spectrum disorders. I'm sure many of you have heard something about autism within the past few years. There's a reason for that -- 1 in 150 children are diagnosed with the disorder. If you've never met or seen a person with ASD, chances are you will soon. The causes of autism are still very debatable and I will leave it at that, I think I've said enough.
This is a very hard line to draw for me, as I'm a passionate cigar smoker. However, I'm more concerned about the rising number of sick kids. I say lets give this a chance and see what happens.

I worked two jobs for several years so my Daughter could have the medical care she needed as she had some severe sinus issues. My wife and I paid for her care ourselves. We didn't go to the Govt. She was OUR child and our RESPONSIBILITY.

We didn't have any more children as ONE was tough enough to care for. Thats called personal responsibilty. A concept thats rare today.

I'm getting so sick and tired of "Its for the children". The lefts excuse for half of their silly plans.

Yeah I'm in half a bad mood here. Schip has opened a festering wound. I'm tired of getting govt programs shoved down my throat, and then paying for them to boot.

FN in MT

[T_Money]

Originally Posted by Puro_Angler

What progress and individual rights has the past eight (10,12,16) years gotten us? There's no bleeding heart here, I'm just calling it like I see it. Facts were all I pointed out. Sorry it rubbed you the wrong way.

I never said the past decade was good. I simply stated that violating a person's right (by forcing them to pay for a program that they do not want, and one that would've been completely unconstitutional under the original constitution) is never correct, even if the program would work and save all the children (which it won't). I still don't think you get the main point here. If you wanna help these kids, do it yourself (and it sounds like you do). The government should not be involved. No one is saying that its ok that all those kids don't get adequate care, but poisoning this country with more government isn't a very morally correct solution.

[ssilverado60]

Originally Posted by FN in MT

I worked two jobs for several years so my Daughter could have the medical care she needed as she had some severe sinus issues. My wife and I paid for her care ourselves. We didn't go to the Govt. She was OUR child and our RESPONSIBILITY.

We didn't have any more children as ONE was tough enough to care for. Thats called personal responsibilty. A concept thats rare today.

I'm getting so sick and tired of "Its for the children". The lefts excuse for half of their silly plans.

Yeah I'm in half a bad mood here. Schip has opened a festering wound. I'm tired of getting govt programs shoved down my throat, and then paying for them to boot.

FN in MT

Glad to see there are people in this country that still believen personal responsibility. I dont get to see that many people out here in cali that can understand what that means

[ssilverado60]

Originally Posted by T_Money

I never said the past decade was good. I simply stated that violating a person's right (by forcing them to pay for a program that they do not want, and one that would've been completely unconstitutional under the original constitution) is never correct, even if the program would work and save all the children (which it won't). I still don't think you get the main point here. If you wanna help these kids, do it yourself (and it sounds like you do). The government should not be involved. No one is saying that its ok that all those kids don't get adequate care, but poisoning this country with more government isn't a very morally correct solution.

HA, my 9 year old understands the constitution better than most in washington. They just do what they want and never question whether or not something is constitutional because they dont care. Its embarrassing.
sorry i know that didnt have much to go along with what you are saying but i just cant believe how badly our great constitution has been abandonded in the government.

[strider72]

The constitution ain't been abandoned by the gov't... it's been sued out of creation.

[Hot Stuff x]

Originally Posted by T_Money

I never said the past decade was good. I simply stated that violating a person's right (by forcing them to pay for a program that they do not want, and one that would've been completely unconstitutional under the original constitution) is never correct, even if the program would work and save all the children (which it won't). I still don't think you get the main point here. If you wanna help these kids, do it yourself (and it sounds like you do). The government should not be involved. No one is saying that its ok that all those kids don't get adequate care, but poisoning this country with more government isn't a very morally correct solution.

+1

Charitable acts aren't charity when they are forced by the government.

[strider72]

I was at Lowe's Saturday and when a cashier asked one customer to roundup and get a MDA Shamrock, he said no, let the gov't give to them.... I almost said "Don't you know Obama and the SOB Democrats will save us all(from ourselves)."

[Addiction]

Wow, just wow. I don't agree with SCHIP mostly, but the raging in this thread is over the top.

[strider72]

Well... let's see. If I understand the story correctly, we are paying $.50 on the $1.00 we make now in income/sales/luxury/gov't-screw-you-over taxes now but hey, we should feel guilty and pay more for their socialist bs programs. I mean they charge you taxes on gas, water, food, and other necessary items and that is horse****.

[ssilverado60]

Originally Posted by Addiction

Wow, just wow. I don't agree with SCHIP mostly, but the raging in this thread is over the top.

whats going on in washington is what i would consider over the top