US talks with Cuba

[jadeg001]

Not sure if this belongs here, but I found it interesting and as a cigar lover, any normalization will have both positive and negative effects on our favorite hobby.

Here's the link to the article.

Any thoughts?

[orca99usa]

It is definitely progress - more than we have seen in decades. The beginning of dialog followed by a lifting of the travel ban means that the embargo will be gone sooner rather than later. I was in early elementary school when it was put in and I'm about ten years short of retirement age now. It's about time.

[Snake Hips]

As a selfish bastard, I dread these developments. As a human being, I'm glad we're finally getting past the retardiculous political situation we've maintained with Cuba for far too long, and for the sake of the Cuban people I hope this means a sooner end to the Embargo.

[PerpetualNoob]

Even leaving cigars out of the equation, after almost 50 years of a policy that, to me at least, clearly has not achieved what it proposed to do, can we finally admit that the Cubans are stubborn-er than we are, and move on? The people who have been hurt by the embargo, the Cuban people, have no means to overthrow the government, even if they were so inclined. How many millions of people have suffered for decades, because Jack and Fidel wanted to prove who had the bigger sack?

[longburn]

The U.S. seems to think it's the father of all the other children even though it's one of the youngest kids on the block sometimes.

I'm against Communisim and dictatorship or oppression of any kind and I love this country and in many ways it's a boon to the world.But for the U.S. to kill off the Native American and build the country on the backs of blacks and immigrants without worker rights then stand back and say look what "we" built on freedom and equal rights is just political propaganda looked at from a political sense and an outright lie looked at from a moral one.

Cuba and the U.S. was simply one long pissing match and the fact that the policy is still here shows how arrogant we can be sometimes.

[chip]

Originally Posted by longburn

The U.S. seems to think it's the father of all the other children even though it's one of the youngest kids on the block sometimes.

I'm against Communisim and dictatorship or oppression of any kind and I love this country and in many ways it's a boon to the world.But for the U.S. to kill off the Native American and build the country on the backs of blacks and immigrants without worker rights then stand back and say look what "we" built on freedom and equal rights is just political propaganda looked at from a political sense and an outright lie looked at from a moral one.

Cuba and the U.S. was simply one long pissing match and the fact that the policy is still here shows how arrogant we can be sometimes.

Woah there....tone it down a mite. One must be careful applying the moral standards of today against actions of the past.

[Zarathustra19]

Originally Posted by chip

Woah there....tone it down a mite. One must be careful applying the moral standards of today against actions of the past.

But then again, most people apply OUR moral standards of today against the moral standards of other countries who may not have developed them yet. That's unfair too.

[chip]

Originally Posted by Zarathustra19

But then again, most people apply OUR moral standards of today against the moral standards of other countries who may not have developed them yet. That's unfair too.

True. Some places are still isolated from the world to a large degree, and not part of the greater community of thought and ideas.

However....and this applies to many of our leaders in the US as well as the rest of the world....there is no excuse for ignoring facts and history to promote some personal agenda, be it moral, social, or political.

The one thing we can always count on is people will continue to ignore truth. Perhaps they cannot recognize it, as sometimes it is so far from their beliefs.

How this applies to the embargo is not so clear to me. I keep thinking of Kennedy telling Salinger to buy as many of his favorite cigars (H Uppman's corona's , I believe) before signing it into law.....such an auspicious start makes the whole thing "taste" bad.

[Nickerson]

Don't really care much about Cuba. Would be nice to be able to get some cigars from there. But in the market of cigars today, there are a lot of options better than most Cuban made cigars. A lot of cigars are made with Cuban seed tobacco, just grown on different soil. In the 50's and earlier they were the best cigars around. But today, companies world wide have grown to perfect their blends making them every bit as good, even better than Cubans were back then.

Reminds me of the Black Band Project "the Cuban guy".

[Tarks]

Well, I for one hope that the embargo remains. Cuba is a beautiful country with great culture and history. The country is like a virgin. Untouched. Anyone who has visited Cuba knows what I am talking about. Lifting the embargo will destroy everything that Cuba is so well known for.

[tx_tuff]

Maybe they (U S) just figures they can charge even more tax on Cuban Tobacco.

[Snake Hips]

Originally Posted by Nickerson

Don't really care much about Cuba. Would be nice to be able to get some cigars from there. But in the market of cigars today, there are a lot of options better than most Cuban made cigars. A lot of cigars are made with Cuban seed tobacco, just grown on different soil. In the 50's and earlier they were the best cigars around. But today, companies world wide have grown to perfect their blends making them every bit as good, even better than Cubans were back then.

Reminds me of the Black Band Project "the Cuban guy".

The different soil is everything. I don't know how many Habanos you've smoked, but it's an opinion thing so I respect yours. I can say the opposite. In my opinion, they still very much are the best cigars around, and there are very very few options "better than most Cuban made cigars." This is the opinion of most of the world; Habanos outsell everything else by 80-90% in every (every) market where both are available, so there's something to say for that. I smoke and enjoy Habanos and non-Cubans alike, but I prefer the Habanos and they make up the vast majority of my collection, particularly since they're exponentially cheaper than comparable non-Cubans (why should I pay $30 for a Padron 1926 when I can get the same level of orgasmic enjoyment for around or often less than $10?). Just my deux centimes.

@Tarks
I'm a little confused about your statment. What will open travel and trade with the United States do to Cuba that open travel and trade with every other first-world Western country hasn't? As I understand it, Cuba is already a big tourist destination. The quaintness, oldness and "untouched beauty" of Cuba is deliberately preserved that way for the sake of the tourists who want to think of it as a virgin country, a "life-slice" exhibit in a museum. The regular citizens aren't even allowed into those parts that the tourists are corralled into. The only thing that I can see changing about it is that some of the sun-lotioned white guys in sandals and Hawaiian shirts will be American instead of just Canadian.

[Tarks]

Originally Posted by Snake Hips

I'm a little confused about your statment. What will open travel and trade with the United States do to Cuba that open travel and trade with every other first-world Western country hasn't? As I understand it, Cuba is already a big tourist destination. The quaintness, oldness and "untouched beauty" of Cuba is deliberately preserved that way for the sake of the tourists who want to think of it as a virgin country, a "life-slice" exhibit in a museum. The regular citizens aren't even allowed into those parts that the tourists are corralled into. The only thing that I can see changing about it is that some of the sun-lotioned white guys in sandals and Hawaiian shirts will be American instead of just Canadian.

Open travel and trade with the United States will bring more tourists and American business. Americans will clog up the country with their fast food restaurants and big chain hotels. Cubans are extremely intelligent people and know exactly what will happen to their country if the embargo was lifted.

You say "The quaintness, oldness and "untouched beauty" of Cuba is deliberately preserved that way for the sake of the tourists". Please, are you kidding me. The entire country is untouched. I don't mean to be rude but you are ignorant. Have you ever been to Cuba? I have been on many trips to different countries in the Caribbean and I can assure you that there is no country like Cuba, for good or for bad!

My stance on this topic is very selfish though. I am in no way saying that Cuba would be better off with no change. Cubans would probably live a better life if the embargo was lifted but Cuba would no longer be a unique country to travel to. Just my opinion.

[Hermit]

"Tuesday afternoon, the Cuban government released a statement that it indicated was Fidel Castro's assessment of a session he had with the lawmakers. In the statement, Castro said that one of the Members of Congress told him that the United States should "apologize" to Cuba. And another lawmaker told the former leader that despite the victory by President Obama, U.S. society is still "racist.""

Anybody else got a problem with that?

[tx_tuff]

I think this thread is getting out of hand and is not about cigars but getting political so I'm closing it.