We need to separate our selves.

[MrMusicMan1]

I think over time we can do this. We need to separate our selves from cigarette smokers. I think this will solve many of our problems. Any thoughts on how us grassroots people can do that effectively?

[GlockG23]

I do not know about that, lot to think about in that statement.
The voting smoking group is small already.
Do we want to make it smaller?

[saigon68]

Imho, we will never separate from cigarette smokers. We are the enemy. We are considered ignorant and reckless, not individualistic, independent, free thinkers. We are considered too stupid to know any better (as it pertains to enjoying a fine cigar) and because we are arrogant and non conforming (in their eyes), punishing us by massive tax levies is for our own good. Don't forget that the SCHIP is a health care fund for children. What if another social program is in jeopardy-well let's hit the fools who consume tobacco. They'll pay up every time. They won't mind, they have no political clout. They deserve to be taxed (and hung). My 2 cents. Apologize if not the appropriate forum.

[CHRIS7891011]

Ok here are my thoughts on this subject:

I agree that there is a HUGE difference between cigar and cig smokers. I personally smoke both but that's a personal decision.

I however don't think we'll ever be separated (see Pat's post)

IF there were a way to separate ourselves from the others then we would have already done it I think. The fact that we put lit leaves in our mouths and make smoke is enough of a similarity for most people. It's unfortunate but I don't think the distinction will ever be made enough to have any real impact.

[T_Money]

Originally Posted by MrMusicMan1

I think over time we can do this. We need to separate our selves from cigarette smokers. I think this will solve many of our problems. Any thoughts on how us grassroots people can do that effectively?

Some of you people are completely amoral. Why would we want to do this? So that they can tax only cigarette smokers?

[strider72]

In general cigar and pipesmokers are different than ciggie smokers. You are going from the enjoyment of packing/lighting/caring for of your pipe or lighting that cigar perfectly, to in most cases,(I'm prepping for the retribution)the quick hit/fix ciggie smoking genre. I have personally seen all this for many moons in family/coworkers/friends. I personally have the quick fix prob myself with smokeless tobacco. But I do love my pipes and cigars.

[doublebassmusician]

We need non-smokers on our side. I think most non-smokers aren't anti's, they just don't care either way.

[Cigary]

Tobacco in any form is an inalienable right for us to use,,,regardless of the content by which we use it in. There is always strength in numbers when fighting for our rights,,,I don't think it wise to seperate ourselves from those who wish to use tobacco in its various forms. We are outnumbered as it is,,why shrink that number to just a hollow voice out there? Think smarter and we can regain our rights.

[Acesfull]

Part of CRA's mission is to separate Cigars from Cigarettes.. they are working on it. Legislatures already recognize them separately. Thats why there are such things are OTP taxes. CRA has recently stopped an OTP from passing in Florida that would have increased cigar tobacco by $1 per ounce! This is why everyone needs to join CRA!

[doublebassmusician]

I've been thinking about joining, although I'm just a pipe smoker...
What does my membership fee go towards? What are the advantages of being a member?

[MrMusicMan1]

Originally Posted by T_Money

Some of you people are completely amoral. Why would we want to do this? So that they can tax only cigarette smokers?

WHAT? Was it amoral when wine separated it self from been and liquor? Do you honestly not see the difference between the cigar industry and cigarette industry?

Please don't make personal attacks. Argue your point, attack the idea.

[Cigary]

Originally Posted by MrMusicMan1

WHAT? Was it amoral when wine separated it self from been and liquor? Do you honestly not see the difference between the cigar industry and cigarette industry?

Please don't make personal attacks. Argue your point, attack the idea.

I respectfully disagree in part with your statement. While the wine and liquor and beer industry did this it still had a very strong backing and support,,,why? Because there are more people out there who indulge themselves in this vice and they could afford to seperate without harming there backing and support. They have not had to deal with this kind of problematic issues since prohibition as the tobacco industry has. Big tobacco has made itself a target since they hid information as to what tobacco does to those who use it. Now that they have come forward they are still trying to clean up the mess they started when all they had to do was give out the same information we have today and they would have probably survived with little or not issues. Truly, when you hide information about a product that can and does harm to others and you get caught, you might was well double your problems. People still use tobacco today even with strong opposition to it because people are still allowed to make their own choices. The anti smoking lobby is still engaged and will not stop until they see a very credible lobby strong enough to take them on and give them some very strong defeats. Only then will you see compromise take place but not one second before. They are pretty much steamrolling along and if they can dismantle those of us who use tobacco in various forms they will continue this runaway express. We need every swinging Richard in place to stop this craziness or we will find ourselves with more taxation,,,more attacks on anyone who uses tobacco. It was once said that a house divided cannot stand and I believe this. If they are able to put us in small camps,,,cigars, pipes, cigarettes, snuff, chewing tobacco then we will fold quicker than a paper airplane. Stand together and we at least have a fighting chance.

Aren't we smarter for aligning ourselves with the alcohol industry as they will picture a man with a cigar while having a pleasureable drink? Shouldn't we bring in the Gun's and Ammo people who fight for the right to bear arms? Inalienable rights cover more than just drink and tobacco and firearms. For those who don't use tobacco it sends a message to their camp that rights are being infringed upon and we need more people on our side,,,regardless of the industry. Just my 2 cents.

[MrMusicMan1]

Good stuff Cigary, thank you for your opinion. We all learn from keeping an open mind and listening to different points of view.

[T_Money]

Again, why do you want to seperate yourself from cigarette smokers? The only concievable reason I can think of (considering you posted this in the legislation forum) is so that the govt only messes with their rights and not your own. Amoral (though quite possibly immoral).

[T_Money]

I guess I should edit that to say " so that the govt. only restrict freedoms you don't care about having."