Do we really have a right to smoke?

[Delsana]

Hello everyone,

Without further adieu, let's get to the center of this...


Well they're two cases that relate to this, and they are as follows:

A. First we have the situation of whether or not it is simply a right of your own or the government, and in this case it's going to be the governments, because there are many things you can't do to yourself without either violating case B, or the law, and very few people will accept or condone such actions, such as suicide, and other such things. So no what you can do to yourself is infinite in realistic terms, but in legal and proper terms you are limited quite a bit in what is "right" and what is "wrong".

So on this case no, you don't have this right, and while it may be infringing on your free-will or your ability to guide your own self and not be restricted by overbearing laws or rules, it still will happen, and the truth is there is only so much you can.

Never forget that logic always takes root in these cases, and while you can argue that vehicles produce the same gases and chemicals that are destroying society, and are thus what should be focused on, the response is that they already are, and so the question you need to ask yourself is as follows:

"What will I do when all the things I can compare my habit or choice to, in regards to worse or better, are changed, already resolved, or no longer applicable?"

The truth is, when that happens, you truly will be in a "rut" so to speak, a trap that cannot be broken or bypassed without your own forfeiture of that which caused the trap in the first place.

Now we lead to case B.

B. In the other form of right, many people say "God-given rights", and then they respect, and even worship or thank God for their ability to smoke, do drugs, and other such things (because after all these things were created or atleast their initial forms were formed by God during the creation and forming of this planet), which while it sounds right, you also have to look into what the Bible and what religion really does state, and very blatantly two things are stated.

1. Your body is the Temple of God, as such you will do no harm to it, or project any defacement.

2. God is to come first in your life, thus the rules are blatant, you have no decision or violation in such cases, and it isn't up for interpretation, and while God may not actually have you kill your first-born son, if he asks or tells you to, you will be willing to do so, for His will and His work is greater than us all.

These are blatantly stated, and very quickly do your rights become devastated in that case, ESPECIALLY to those who focus on the "God-given" right to do such things.

Also while God does not care for Man's law, and thus it is not important aside from survival on this world, His law is to always supercede it, and as such you are meant to make certain it does, and nothing comes before him.

-------------

There are other cases, but these relate the most to the prime two arguments I hear every once and a while regarding these issues.

Hope I gave some insight, and I can provide facts and support for everything if asked.

Best of luck in your ventures,



- B.

Edit:

Oh my, I just noticed I misread the recent dates, and I'm a month off (*sigh*).

[Cigary]

Originally Posted by Delsana

Hello everyone,

Without further adieu, let's get to the center of this...


Well they're two cases that relate to this, and they are as follows:

A. First we have the situation of whether or not it is simply a right of your own or the government, and in this case it's going to be the governments, because there are many things you can't do to yourself without either violating case B, or the law, and very few people will accept or condone such actions, such as suicide, and other such things. So no what you can do to yourself is infinite in realistic terms, but in legal and proper terms you are limited quite a bit in what is "right" and what is "wrong".

So on this case no, you don't have this right, and while it may be infringing on your free-will or your ability to guide your own self and not be restricted by overbearing laws or rules, it still will happen, and the truth is there is only so much you can.

Never forget that logic always takes root in these cases, and while you can argue that vehicles produce the same gases and chemicals that are destroying society, and are thus what should be focused on, the response is that they already are, and so the question you need to ask yourself is as follows:

"What will I do when all the things I can compare my habit or choice to, in regards to worse or better, are changed, already resolved, or no longer applicable?"

The truth is, when that happens, you truly will be in a "rut" so to speak, a trap that cannot be broken or bypassed without your own forfeiture of that which caused the trap in the first place.

Now we lead to case B.

B. In the other form of right, many people say "God-given rights", and then they respect, and even worship or thank God for their ability to smoke, do drugs, and other such things (because after all these things were created or atleast their initial forms were formed by God during the creation and forming of this planet), which while it sounds right, you also have to look into what the Bible and what religion really does state, and very blatantly two things are stated.

1. Your body is the Temple of God, as such you will do no harm to it, or project any defacement.

2. God is to come first in your life, thus the rules are blatant, you have no decision or violation in such cases, and it isn't up for interpretation, and while God may not actually have you kill your first-born son, if he asks or tells you to, you will be willing to do so, for His will and His work is greater than us all.

These are blatantly stated, and very quickly do your rights become devastated in that case, ESPECIALLY to those who focus on the "God-given" right to do such things.

Also while God does not care for Man's law, and thus it is not important aside from survival on this world, His law is to always supercede it, and as such you are meant to make certain it does, and nothing comes before him.

-------------

There are other cases, but these relate the most to the prime two arguments I hear every once and a while regarding these issues.

Hope I gave some insight, and I can provide facts and support for everything if asked.

Best of luck in your ventures,



- B.

Edit:

Oh my, I just noticed I misread the recent dates, and I'm a month off (*sigh*).

You might take some ribbing about this verse in Genesis 22:64:
Notice the reaction of Rebekah in verse 64, "And Rebekah lifted up her eyes, and when she saw Isaac, she lighted off the camel."

I know what your response will be to this and I am being facetious with you. Understand that you will also take some negative shots from your stance as well from those who do believe in their religion as I do. Since our body is a temple,,,,what must we do when we know we live in a city that spews more pollution PPM every day than the cigars we might smoke in a week? We breather in exhaust, our ozone is a mess, busses spew more contaminants than a whole humidor full of cigars. We eat sugar like it's crack,,,we eat at BK and other fast food places everyday and our nation is obese. I really don't think that you have the "stripes" to tell anyone about their eternity based on one mans opinion. If you were to be Deity then of course I'd give you my undivided attention. Since you are flesh and blood like myself and do not speak for Deity I can pretty much feel confident that my eternity is still not in question. I respect your right to espouse your opinion but you have to know going in that it is an opinion.

[Delsana]

Right, that has nothing to do with the inhalation of substances, however.

1. "Camel's" were not substances to be inhaled.

2. Knowing the meaning of that word in its old form makes it seem proper and not in any manner against what I said.

I understand what you're doing but also understand that while I'm not against your decisions, I am simply not supportive of laying it on God as if his word supports it, when it so clearly does not. If there are so many dangerous things in life, avoid them, or do not do them.

For instance, I don't partake in fast food, rarely am around fumes, and make certain that I live a healthy life, also having counters to unhealthy things around me by doing more healthy things during those times or after those times.

Just because things are "bad" doesn't mean that "making it worse" doesn't matter. As such, if you choose to make said decisions that your own choice and fine I have no misgivings about it, however it's the excuses that irritate me, and if the main excuse is simply that everything else is killing us so why not do "this" as well, then you've got a pretty terrible defense.

[commonsenseman]

Originally Posted by Cigary

You might take some ribbing about this verse in Genesis 22:64:
Notice the reaction of Rebekah in verse 64, "And Rebekah lifted up her eyes, and when she saw Isaac, she lighted off the camel." .

Originally Posted by Cigary

I know what your response will be to this and I am being facetious with you. Understand that you will also take some negative shots from your stance as well from those who do believe in their religion as I do. Since our body is a temple,,,,what must we do when we know we live in a city that spews more pollution PPM every day than the cigars we might smoke in a week? We breather in exhaust, our ozone is a mess, busses spew more contaminants than a whole humidor full of cigars. We eat sugar like it's crack,,,we eat at BK and other fast food places everyday and our nation is obese.

I agree, there are other things that are much more harmfull to our bodies than a little smoke. Next thing we'll be hearing that bonfires cause cancer.

Originally Posted by Delsana

Right, that has nothing to do with the inhalation of substances, however.

1. "Camel's" were not substances to be inhaled.

2. Knowing the meaning of that word in its old form makes it seem proper and not in any manner against what I said.

I understand what you're doing but also understand that while I'm not against your decisions, I am simply not supportive of laying it on God as if his word supports it, when it so clearly does not. If there are so many dangerous things in life, avoid them, or do not do them.

For instance, I don't partake in fast food, rarely am around fumes, and make certain that I live a healthy life, also having counters to unhealthy things around me by doing more healthy things during those times or after those times.

Just because things are "bad" doesn't mean that "making it worse" doesn't matter. As such, if you choose to make said decisions that your own choice and fine I have no misgivings about it, however it's the excuses that irritate me, and if the main excuse is simply that everything else is killing us so why not do "this" as well, then you've got a pretty terrible defense.

I belive that God gave us the choice to do whatever we want with our bodies. That being said, he did give us guidelines to live by. I'm pretty sure smoking cigars isn't mentioned in the Bible, I can't imaging someone deciphering the Bible as saying that smoking is a sin. I personally am not really concerned with the health effects of cigar smoking, I don't believe that they're near as bad for me as some "nanny-staters" would have us believe.

Just like my gun, they can have my cigar "when they pry it from my cold, dead fingers".

[Delsana]

But, it's obvious that he didn't... it's even in the bible... if need be I'll quote the passage, but our bodies are meant to be a Temple to God, I'm quite a religious person so in my youth when I read that I made certain I followed it to the best of my ability.

You can do as you like, and you can be forgiven, but your body is supposed to follow those guidelines.

[commonsenseman]

Originally Posted by Delsana

But, it's obvious that he didn't... it's even in the bible... if need be I'll quote the passage, but our bodies are meant to be a Temple to God, I'm quite a religious person so in my youth when I read that I made certain I followed it to the best of my ability.

You can do as you like, and you can be forgiven, but your body is supposed to follow those guidelines.

Well good sir you are certainly entitled to your opinion. Please take the following in the nicest way possible, I mean no offense whatsoever. But if you don't smoke, why are you on Puff.com?

[Delsana]

I actually never said yes or no either way, we all sin after all, I just make sure I limit it and don't make excuses about it.

However, the reason I'm here is because while I've stalked this site for a long time, and many others, I simply saw something I had a reply to, and then of course I made a few more replies to things while here.

I'm a socialist, and I like conversations, intelligent, witty, unique, wise, debates, it matters not what.

[tobacmon]

O K simple and straight to the point I always say----I'm up in the years so I would say leave me the F*** alone and I'll leave you alone! Mind your business & I'll mind mine.

Another phase comes to mind--"Don't start none won't be none!"

Hows That !

LOL

[Cigary]

Originally Posted by Delsana

But, it's obvious that he didn't... it's even in the bible... if need be I'll quote the passage, but our bodies are meant to be a Temple to God, I'm quite a religious person so in my youth when I read that I made certain I followed it to the best of my ability.

You can do as you like, and you can be forgiven, but your body is supposed to follow those guidelines.

I'd probably put the shovel down before you dig a hole you can't fill in. Religion and cigars is probably not something that is going to be very entertaining on here. I think you are being given quite a bit of leeway on this subject and you need to understand that your opinion is your own and from what I read you have not been given the keys to the Kingdom nor have you been given entitlement to cast judgement. Remember that verse that says: Judge not that you be not judged? Not wanting to name any names but I'm pretty sure he spelled your name correctly.

Originally Posted by commonsenseman

Well good sir you are certainly entitled to your opinion. Please take the following in the nicest way possible, I mean no offense whatsoever. But if you don't smoke, why are you on Puff.com?

Bingo!! That's like telling an alcoholic not to drink while you are sipping some kentucky bourbon out of a flask.

Originally Posted by Delsana

I actually never said yes or no either way, we all sin after all, I just make sure I limit it and don't make excuses about it.

So what you are saying is that you plan on breaking commandments even when you know what you are doing is wrong? My friend, you are all over the board here.

However, the reason I'm here is because while I've stalked this site for a long time, and many others, I simply saw something I had a reply to, and then of course I made a few more replies to things while here.

I'm a socialist, and I like conversations, intelligent, witty, unique, wise, debates, it matters not what.

Socialist? This is a cigar forum not a debating society and you really really might want to jot that down in your notes so you don't come off as instigating things. People on here are pretty good people who enjoy coming on here to talk about a hobby they love and the last thing I think they want to hear is someone wanting to trash it. Seriously, read some of the "newbie" rules and try not to step on any of the fish toes on here.

Originally Posted by tobacmon

O K simple and straight to the point I always say----I'm up in the years so I would say leave me the F*** alone and I'll leave you alone! Mind your business & I'll mind mine.

Another phase comes to mind--"Don't start none won't be none!"

Hows That !

LOL

Paul, you said it about as plain as plain can be and right on the money. If ya can't understand that then you just can't read.

[Delsana]

As I said, I have not said one way or the other, I generally take the role of the devils advocate, regardless.

I simply quote what's in the book, and my opinion on it.

Also, do not limit the possibilities of this forum, limits are never acceptable, however it is obvious I hit the chord I was looking for... now to let the way of conversations, to do the rest for me.

Edit:

If I'm guilty of instigation, it's of intelligent thought.

[defcon3]

Originally Posted by Delsana

But, it's obvious that he didn't... it's even in the bible... if need be I'll quote the passage, but our bodies are meant to be a Temple to God, I'm quite a religious person so in my youth when I read that I made certain I followed it to the best of my ability.

You can do as you like, and you can be forgiven, but your body is supposed to follow those guidelines.

I would say that your interpretation of 1 Cor. 16:19-20 is skewed...

This is a typical response for Christians who don't smoke or drink, it's sad/funny as the same ones who stuff white-sugar, fat, McDonalds, soggy donuts, junk food and all other kinds of processed foods and poison into their couch-potato-temples as they condemn one and condone another...

I am follower of Christ, obviously far from perfect, and do my best not to judge another believer as instructed...

Perhaps this specific verse given to the church of Corinth was more to do with prostitution, adultery, and using their bodies in pagan rituals, then personal views on tobacco and drinking...

Colossians 2:16

[madurolover]

Originally Posted by Delsana

As I said, I have not said one way or the other, I generally take the role of the devils advocate, regardless.

Nothing wrong with that.

Originally Posted by Delsana

I simply quote what's in the book, and my opinion on it.

Actually I would say that it is your "interpretation" of it.

Originally Posted by Delsana

Also, do not limit the possibilities of this forum, limits are never acceptable, however it is obvious I hit the chord I was looking for... now to let the way of conversations, to do the rest for me.

The possibilities of this forum are very limited when it comes to discussions of religion or politics. There will be none!

Originally Posted by Delsana

If I'm guilty of instigation, it's of intelligent thought.

This, is an opinion.

[Cigary]

Originally Posted by madurolover

This, is an opinion.

ROFL,,,this last one made me wish for keyboard splash guard.

[danmcmartin]

Ya, this thread took a turn for the strange. It is entertaining, however.

[commonsenseman]

Originally Posted by Delsana

As I said, I have not said one way or the other, I generally take the role of the devils advocate, regardless.

I simply quote what's in the book, and my opinion on it.

Also, do not limit the possibilities of this forum, limits are never acceptable, however it is obvious I hit the chord I was looking for... now to let the way of conversations, to do the rest for me.

Edit:

If I'm guilty of instigation, it's of intelligent thought.

WTF