Senate Passes FDA Tobacco Bill

[bilingue23]

Originally Posted by madurolover

Show me a young conservative and I'll show you a man without a heart. Show me an old liberal and I'll show you a man without a brain............Winston Churchill

Different version of the same quote:

If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain.

A very good quote.

Does anyone know if/how this bill will impact cigars? With the taxes being raised and all these changes being made, i'm glad i'm stocked up!

[Mr.Lordi]

Originally Posted by bilingue23

Different version of the same quote:

If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain.

A very good quote.

I actually disagree with both versions of this quote, as so much has changed since Churchhill's time and the issues of today are not reflective of the past.

a friend of mine is Pro-life, a very conservative stance. They don't want babies to be needlessly slaughtered. I would not say those who are young and pro-life are heartless at all, quite the contrary.

Also the youth of back then was a lot more optimistic then the youth of today. Back then the government was the good guys, who did no wrong.

The 60's radically change the culture, for good and bad. We as citizens, for the most part, no longer have faith in our government. Much like 9/11 changed us so did the sixties.


Although I'd say the 1950's where probably the catalyst for the 60's revolution, with the McCarthyism and what have you.

I tend to be moderate in my views now, were as in my teens I stupidly and blindly followed the libertarians and didn't think for myself about the views I held, I just agreed with them and thought that what I thought should be so.

Now I consider my views, and depending upon the facts I recive as I look into it more and more, I may or may not change my view. That, is the right way to go about it.

Sorry, just had to state that. Don't want to divert this thread from its original point.

[strider72]

Originally Posted by Mr.Lordi

This is yet another irony when it comes to liberals. If a conservative dares say "Abortion should be illegal" they yell and complain "Oh my God, a woman has a RIGHT to choose, it is her body"

Funny how nobody seems to care for the right of the unborn child on the left(bastard) side.

[hornitosmonster]

Do we know exactly how this effects Cigars and pipe tobaccos?

As for the political stuff...this bill was passing regardless of who was president. The "Evils" of tobacco is one issue that both sides agree on.

If you disagree with me (That it would not have passed with McCain) then explain these numbers

Senate 79-17 vote, and the House followed suit Friday, with a 307-97 vote.

[Cletus]

Originally Posted by madurolover

Show me a young conservative and I'll show you a man without a heart. Show me an old liberal and I'll show you a man without a brain............Winston Churchill

This quote is often attributed to Winston Churchill when in fact he never said it.

Here's an interesting quote from Churchill: “The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.”


.

[sounds7]

Originally Posted by strider72

Funny how nobody seems to care for the right of the unborn child on the left(bastard) side.

But they cant tax abortion... Or can they? hmmm

[madurolover]

Originally Posted by strider72

Funny how nobody seems to care for the right of the unborn child on the left(bastard) side.

Saw a bumper sticker the other day that said "Ever notice how everyone that is for abortion has already been born?"

Originally Posted by hornitosmonster

Do we know exactly how this effects Cigars and pipe tobaccos?

As for the political stuff...this bill was passing regardless of who was president. The "Evils" of tobacco is one issue that both sides agree on.

If you disagree with me (That it would not have passed with McCain) then explain these numbers

Senate 79-17 vote, and the House followed suit Friday, with a 307-97 vote.

No doubt. The only difference in politicians these days is one has an (R) before his name and the other has a (D).

[hornitosmonster]

Originally Posted by Cletus

This quote is often attributed to Winston Churchill when in fact he never said it.

Here's an interesting quote from Churchill: “The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.”


.

found this with a quick google search

If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain.

* According to research by Mark T. Shirey, citing Nice Guys Finish Seventh: False Phrases, Spurious Sayings, and Familiar Misquotations by Ralph Keyes, 1992, this quote was first uttered by mid-nineteenth century historian and statesman François Guizot when he observed, Not to be a republican at 20 is proof of want of heart; to be one at 30 is proof of want of head. This quote has been attributed variously to George Bernard Shaw, Benjamin Disraeli, Otto von Bismarck, and others.
* Furthermore, the Churchill Centre, on its Falsely Attributed Quotations page, states "there is no record of anyone hearing Churchill say this." Paul Addison of Edinburgh University is quoted as stating: "Surely Churchill can't have used the words attributed to him. He'd been a Conservative at 15 and a Liberal at 35! And would he have talked so disrespectfully of Clemmie, who is generally thought to have been a lifelong Liberal?"

[oldforge]

Originally Posted by hornitosmonster

Do we know exactly how this effects Cigars and pipe tobaccos?

Short term there will probably be no effect. In the long term this is a complete disaster. What it means is that with a mere regulation the FDA can alter the contents of tobacco products any way they see fit.

Since the only lobbyist with enough clout to have any impact is Phillip Morris (Altria) you can expect a war of attrition against all non-Altria products, including pipe tobacco and cigars.

I keep telling folks--stock up on your favs while you can--because there will come a day when everyone will be getting supplied from the black market or doing without.

[Rev2010]

Originally Posted by hornitosmonster

As for the political stuff...this bill was passing regardless of who was president. The "Evils" of tobacco is one issue that both sides agree on.

If you disagree with me (That it would not have passed with McCain) then explain these numbers

Actually you are quite correct. McCain has been lobbying for some time to get the FDA in charge of tobacco. I read a whole thing about this a few days ago.

So yes, had McCain became president this still would've occured.


Rev.

[Mr.Lordi]

Originally Posted by hornitosmonster

Do we know exactly how this effects Cigars and pipe tobaccos?

As for the political stuff...this bill was passing regardless of who was president. The "Evils" of tobacco is one issue that both sides agree on.

If you disagree with me (That it would not have passed with McCain) then explain these numbers

Senate 79-17 vote, and the House followed suit Friday, with a 307-97 vote.

I just recently found out McCain was for this, which disappointed me. Granted I'm not any more a McCain fan then I am an Obama fan, but the fact he would be for this, when, if I recall right, he was against SCHIP, is disappointing.

That is another thing that makes me laugh. McCain is pro-life, and against SCHIP, I do believe. Can't either candidate get on the same damn page? If you are pro-choice, you should not care more about children all ready born and if you're pro-life, you should care more about those who are born, not just the unborn.

Not even gonna mention the pro-life warrior contradiction. lol

Sigh!

Originally Posted by sound7

But they cant tax abortion... Or can they? hmmm

They could, I'm sure. I mean, there are enough abortions each year, that they would make a killing...

Poor taste jokes aside, and again, I don't want to skew away from the topic at hand, but Obama passed a bill that makes the tax payers pay for abortions for those who cannot afford them.

I will state, I am not pro-choice, nor am I pro-life; I am pro-responsibility and if someone wants an abortion, it is there job to pay for it, not the tax payers.

[strider72]

Originally Posted by oldforge

I keep telling folks--stock up on your favs while you can--because there will come a day when everyone will be getting supplied from the black market or doing without.

Done decided on becoming a liquor/tobacco/gun smuggler if everything goes to hell(like it ain't damn close now).

[s.tyler]

obama is a smoker, has smoked marlboro reds for 20+ years.
the bill passed with overwhelming bilateral support, including the support of philip morris.
not defending it but it would be inaccurate to post this as a liberal conspiracy. our taxes pay for a lot of medicare and medicaid health care and therefore pay for a lot of smoking related illness. reducing that cost will lower our taxes. this bill isnt about cigars. one good aspect of the FDA bill is that ingredients must be public. as a smoker and dipper i definitely want to know whats in my tobacco. making a more informed choice about which product i use is a plus. lastly, this bill does not raise taxes on tobacco.

[Rev2010]

Originally Posted by s.tyler

our taxes pay for a lot of medicare and medicaid health care and therefore pay for a lot of smoking related illness. reducing that cost will lower our taxes.

I have to respectfully disagree on this part of your post. I do not believe our taxes will come down. If more money is freed up it will be redirected to one of the other million government expenses. I highly doubt they'll just pass it on to us tax payers, especially with such a huge deficit.

And even if they did you have to realize that they still shag us in some other way. I mean, we're already paying a lot more for tobacco sue to the SCHIP bill for example. So they'd probably just tax us somewhere else.


Rev.

[s.tyler]

Originally Posted by Rev2010

I have to respectfully disagree on this part of your post. I do not believe our taxes will come down. If more money is freed up it will be redirected to one of the other million government expenses. I highly doubt they'll just pass it on to us tax payers, especially with such a huge deficit.

And even if they did you have to realize that they still shag us in some other way. I mean, we're already paying a lot more for tobacco sue to the SCHIP bill for example. So they'd probably just tax us somewhere else.


Rev.

theres some truth to that but painting liberals as fiscally irresponsible doesnt hold up any more. bush did away with budget surpluses because of tax breaks and war. the current administration is advocating pay as you go and not getting any support from republicans.