Senate Passes FDA Tobacco Bill

[plexiprs]

Originally Posted by s.tyler

theres some truth to that but painting liberals as fiscally irresponsible doesnt hold up any more. bush did away with budget surpluses because of tax breaks and war. the current administration is advocating pay as you go and not getting any support from republicans.

Sometimes, reality sets in even when you promise to ignore it.

Health-care overhaul legislation being drafted by House Democrats will include $600 billion in tax increases and $400 billion in cuts to Medicare and Medicaid, Ways and Means Committee Chairman Charles Rangel said.

Democrats will work on the bill’s details next week as they struggle through “what kind of heartburn” it will cause to agree on how to pay for revamping the health-care system, Rangel, a New York Democrat, said today. The measure’s cost is reaching well beyond the $634 billion President Barack Obama proposed in his budget request to Congress as a 10-year down payment for the policy changes.

Asked whether the cost of a health-care overhaul would be more than $1 trillion over a decade, Rangel said, “the answer is yes.” Some Senate Republicans, including Senator Orrin Hatch of Utah, say the costs will likely exceed $1.5 trillion.

More taxes anyone??

[brianwalden]

Originally Posted by Mr.Lordi

This is yet another irony when it comes to liberals. If a conservative dares say "Abortion should be illegal" they yell and complain "Oh my God, a woman has a RIGHT to choose, it is her body"

Yet when it comes to smoking, we don't have the right to choose what happens to our body?

This seems perfectly consistent to me. They think the government should choose what we do with our bodies and mothers should choose the fate of their children's bodies. When the government won't protect the basic human rights of the weakest among us how can we expect it to protect the trivial ones like enjoying a good smoke every once in a while.

[s.tyler]

Originally Posted by brianwalden

This seems perfectly consistent to me. They think the government should choose what we do with our bodies and mothers should choose the fate of their children's bodies. When the government won't protect the basic human rights of the weakest among us how can we expect it to protect the trivial ones like enjoying a good smoke every once in a while.

the bill does not ban tobacco nor does the legislation allow for removing nicotine.

[plexiprs]

Originally Posted by s.tyler

the bill does not ban tobacco nor does the legislation allow for removing nicotine.

So very untrue. THe LAW as submitted to the White House prohibits the following;

LIMITATION ON POWER GRANTED TO THE FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION- Because of the importance of a decision of the Secretary to issue a regulation--

`(A) banning all cigarettes, all smokeless tobacco products, all little cigars, all cigars other than little cigars, all pipe tobacco, or all roll-your-own tobacco products; or

`(B) requiring the reduction of nicotine yields of a tobacco product to zero,

the Secretary is prohibited from taking such actions under this Act.

READ the actual text here .... Search Results - THOMAS (Library of Congress)

[s.tyler]

Originally Posted by plexiprs

So very untrue. THe LAW as submitted to the White House prohibits the following;

READ the actual text here .... Search Results - THOMAS (Library of Congress)

nope. they cannot reduce nicotine to zero. they cannot ban cigarettes.

"The bill also would prohibit the FDA from using its new authority to increase the new federal minimum age of 18 to a higher level, require prescriptions for the purchase of tobacco products, ban tobacco product sales in any particular type of sales outlet or regulate tobacco farming directly."

"The legislation would also impose certain limits on the FDA’s new authority. Most notably, it would prohibit the FDA from banning conventional tobacco products, such as cigarettes and smokeless tobacco, or requiring the total elimination of nicotine in tobacco products. "

[plexiprs]

Originally Posted by s.tyler

nope. they cannot reduce nicotine to zero. they cannot ban cigarettes.

I am sorry but you originally said ....

Originally Posted by s.tyler

the bill does not ban tobacco nor does the legislation allow for removing nicotine.

The proposed Statute I quoted plainly allows the reduction of nicotine, just not to a zero level. I.e., "requiring the reduction of nicotine yields of a tobacco product to zero"

You also said that above that the bill does not ban tobacco. Wrong, it does not ban "... all cigarettes, all smokeless tobacco products, all little cigars, all cigars other than little cigars, all pipe tobacco, or all roll-your-own tobacco products."

As one who daily works in Federal laws, rules, and regulations I can state without hesitation that your statement, "the bill does not ban tobacco" is not factual. The bill prohibits banning "ALL" of certain products, but still quite plainly allows the banning of "tobacco" as a source product.

They WILL reduce nicotine levels, or cap nicotine levels, and they WILL ban some but not all, tobacco products.

I'll bet on it right now.

Are you willing to passively accept the .00001% of tobacco products they do not ban in the name of your improved health? I am not .....

[Raybird]

Originally Posted by plexiprs

I am sorry but you originally said ....


Are you willing to passively accept the .00001% of tobacco products they do not ban in the name of your improved health? I am not .....

Same Here!

[strider72]

Not to mention the tobacco industry employees they put out on the street... this will fix the economy. Americans are going to have to get off their duff and see all this for what it really is.

[sounds7]

Originally Posted by s.tyler

theres some truth to that but painting liberals as fiscally irresponsible doesnt hold up any more. bush did away with budget surpluses because of tax breaks and war. the current administration is advocating pay as you go and not getting any support from republicans.

yea they (liberals) spend and we (tax payers) pay thats how it works. Too much socialism for me. I have lived in Europe and while they have quite a lot going for them this is one thing I get an earful on, They get nearly half their income taken by Government taxes and regulation. My Brother in Law is an Engineer working for the Space industry in Amsterdam (Works on Telescopes), yet he lives so much more modestly than I , a mere Teacher and Musician here in the States. I am not so sure how long that will be the case though.
Socialism doesn't work and regulating everything that "Big Brother" wants to put his hands on doesn't work either. We will be the ones to pay for this intrusion on our Liberties.

[golfermd]

Liberal aren't really "liberals" anymore. They aren't about personal freedoms, rights, or responsibilities. They are about socialism. Period!

[plexiprs]

Originally Posted by golfermd

Liberal aren't really "liberals" anymore. They aren't about personal freedoms, rights, or responsibilities. They are about socialism. Period!

Yaaaa hooo!

[madurolover]

Ok guys, let's get this back on track and discuss the bill. We all seem to be getting further into the Right/Left argument here. Regardless of which side it is we are here to discuss what, if any repercussions it will have on us as tobacco users.

[sounds7]

Originally Posted by madurolover

Ok guys, let's get this back on track and discuss the bill. We all seem to be getting further into the Right/Left argument here. Regardless of which side it is we are here to discuss what, if any repercussions it will have on us as tobacco users.

For starters i see the affect being price. much like when regulation of the gasoline industry caused higher production costs especially in summer months. Even if only one segment of the tobacco industry is hit by the legislation (Cigarettes) the prices will certainly go higher on other types of tobacco as well in order for companies to absorb the cost of adhering to stricter guidelines.

You may see some tobacco become more and more scarce as they will no longer be profitable to produce. They may streamline so as to avoid the tedious processes that tobacco makers are sure to have to deal with.

And finally, God forbid, some may fold up shop and just quit making it for the US all together and focus their attention on less regulated markets.

[Mr.Lordi]

Originally Posted by plexiprs

Yaaaa hooo!

I see Wal-Mart finally got a logo better suited to them...lol! I'm half tempted to use that as my avatar.

Originally Posted by sounds7

For starters i see the affect being price. much like when regulation of the gasoline industry caused higher production costs especially in summer months. Even if only one segment of the tobacco industry is hit by the legislation (Cigarettes) the prices will certainly go higher on other types of tobacco as well in order for companies to absorb the cost of adhering to stricter guidelines.

If only ciggs are hit, how are the prices going to go up on other tobacco? Even most OTC, if not all, are produced by companies that don't even sell ciggs, as far as I know.

[sounds7]

Thing is the tobacco companies are more diversified than you might think.
http://www.medibix.com/CompanySearch...=19250&stype=i

1. R.J. Reynolds Tobacco Company is the second-largest tobacco company. The company's brands include five of the nation's 10 best-selling cigarettes and distributes a variety of tobacco products manufactured by its subsidiary - Lane, Limited who also makes pipe tobacco.
2. Imperial Tobacco owns Altadis - World's Largest Cigar Manufacturer and makes several pipe blends, oh and they own 800 Jr Cigars .
3.Brittish American Tobacco is another that produces Cigarettes and Pipe tobacco.
4. Gallaher Group now owned by Japan Tobacco has brands including cigarettes and cigars such as Benson & Hedges, Silk Cut, Sterling Mayfair, Kensitas Club, Senior Service, Amber Leaf, Sobranie and Hamlet Cigars.
5. Philip Morris USA (Altria) - Marlboro Cigarettes, John Middleton Cigars, Skoal Copenhagen Smokeless

Also demand will go up for other types of smokes as the Cigarette crowd comes over to our side. With increased demand comes increased price.

Besides I truly do not expect the Government to stop with cigarettes. New legislation is just around the corner. Search your feelings you know it to be true.