Another smoking ban article

[commonsenseman]

Originally Posted by Delsana

First off be wary when you involve the liberties of our "great country".

What are you implying here?

Originally Posted by Delsana

It should readily be apparent that due to the statutes being vague, America has interpreted nearly all of the ways this country works, and as such they could be ENTIRELY different than what the founders wanted.

"A government big enough to give you everything you want is also big enough to take everything you have."

Originally Posted by Delsana

Also, the reason this country was made was because of taxation, the martial law, and because they TRIED to talk intelligent and discuss things properly, and they were ignored and only met with more aggression. In this case, the precedent falls on the anti smoker groups being ignored, and thus taking force, not on your side.

First of all what the hell does that have to do with cigars? Second, you are exactly right, people like this & like you cannot be reasoned with, that's why we must fight for our RIGHTS. We will not let people take these things away, just because some people say it's bad for us, I don't need a nanny-state to help me figure out that cigars are bad for me. I don't care if they are & I will continue to smoke them regardless of what anyone says.

Originally Posted by Delsana

the battle has already been lost...

Quitter.

Originally Posted by Delsana

however I am willing to make sacrifices.....so as to better the world, if that becomes the desire of the people.

Our liberties have been trampled enough, I will not give things up I care about "for the good of the state".

Originally Posted by Delsana

While SOME OF IT (and not MUCH) is about control, you are seriously misleading yourselves in an attempt to make yourselves and your opinions seem more "factual", if you believe that none of it is helpful, or good.

Do not fool yourself, it IS about control.

Originally Posted by Delsana

Global warming has already been scientifically proven and can be re proven by your own research if you ever so choose. While yes, the government wants to control what you do, they also have to do something... and that means fixing things. Point being there are several ozone tears that aren't repairing due to focused pollution... and will NEVER be fixed until such a thing is stopped.

Regardless of what you say, global warming has not been proven, that's why it's been changed to "climate change". The earth has been in a cooling cycle lately, which didn't really fit in to Al Gore's model. Wierd how the earth warms, then cools, almost like a cycle or something.

[Delsana]

Yes, it is a cycle... the issue is that the ozone tears still exist... and the "temperature cycle" is becoming more and more... different than it should be.

[madurolover]

Let's get this back on the topic of tobacco legislation and off the topic of global warming or climate change or whatever the buzzword is today.

Thanks guys.

[Cigary]

I know you are a Bible student so let me answer you with something that you probably forgot to read in your studies. This thread has gone on for enough time so that we are well aware of what your thoughts are and yet you do not seem to want to let this go.

Originally Posted by Delsana

I advise you to read my statements if that is not already apparent.
Read Proverbs 18

From my research and from what I've seen, they weren't aggressive at first, they asked kindly, they did things to fix things without real aggression or anger... and people didn't like that, so now they try a more confrontational approach, and instead of replying with intelligence and reasoning and discussion, you also reply in confrontational forms, and so it's not anyone's fault for starting it per-say, but it is everyone's fault for the way it continues to be. Proverbs 17:10

Yelling at people, fixes nothing, and confrontation only begets confrontation, as they have shown, and you have made.

While it's true I prefer the intellectual side as well as playing the devil's advocate and the Laissez-faire approach, it should also be known that I do very much know what is going on in the world, and I simply focus on the fact that aggression and the current responses don't fix anything, and never will...Proverbs 163

While it can be argued they too should show a lack of confrontation, it can also be said that they already did, and that didn't work, however it would be nice if they reverted to that and everyone discussed properly and intelligently, but in reality they don't need to do that anymore... they are winning the war, slowly but surely. The only choice left to make is what the casualties will be, and what the surrender agreement will become.

I simply firmly believe, we have already lost... we just haven't seen how yet, and thus I would much prefer to come out with something, rather than nothing... and the only way to do that is to change our appearance... which is what I work towards in all aspects, during my life. Proverbs 26:6

Where you once had our attention at the beginning of this thread you began to lose us once you took the stance that your intellect was better than ours and you kept on telling us that your grasp of this subject matter was even higher. Your behavior suggests that you are more interested in proving a point you believe in rather than to learn what the facts are. You will read in Proverbs how a fool continues to speak their mind only because they want to prove their intellect and what happens is that they show what a fool really looks like. Put the shovel down and redirect your energy to something more worthwhile than a daily debate.

[FrayAdjacent]

Bans suck. Even though I abhor the smell of cigarettes, I can't stand banning them, or banning them in places where you'd expect people to smoke.

[danmcmartin]

Originally Posted by Delsana

First off be wary when you involve the liberties of our "great country".

It should readily be apparent that due to the statutes being vague, America has interpreted nearly all of the ways this country works, and as such they could be ENTIRELY different than what the founders wanted.

It is likely that the United States today is different than the Founding Fathers intended, but it is not due to lack of understanding. They left behind many writings besides the founding documents (Declaration of Independence and the Constitution). Many wrote extensively about their intent. They had their own debates, most of it recorded in written form. We know exactly what they intended. In fact, they warned us in many of those writings about the situation we find ourselves in now, if only generally.

The Congress, President and Supreme Court have at times chosen to ignore what the Founding Fathers set forth (not to mention the states abdicating their autonomy over the last two centuries), but it hasn't been because we don't know what the Founding Fathers intended.

[Plop007]

Originally Posted by Delsana

First off be wary when you involve the liberties of our "great country".

It should readily be apparent that due to the statutes being vague, America has interpreted nearly all of the ways this country works, and as such they could be ENTIRELY different than what the founders wanted.

Also, the reason this country was made was because of taxation, the martial law, and because they TRIED to talk intelligent and discuss things properly, and they were ignored and only met with more aggression. In this case, the precedent falls on the anti smoker groups being ignored, and thus taking force, not on your side.

However, I stand by what I will continue to state until the end of time.

Confrontation is not what will work... you don't have many of a choice any more, the battle has already been lost... the only issue is how long will it take to understand this, and what will be saved from the wrath of these agencies and interest groups.

Edit:

Numerous times I have stated that I partake yes, however I am very health-conscious, make sure not to over-indulge, and appreciate it more for the camaraderie and relaxation in the times of great strife, that it brings... (and is something so rare these days) which is NOT something I want to be taken away true, however I am willing to make sacrifices (not complete loss) so as to better the world, if that becomes the desire of the people.

Edit 2:

While SOME OF IT (and not MUCH) is about control, you are seriously misleading yourselves in an attempt to make yourselves and your opinions seem more "factual", if you believe that none of it is helpful, or good.

Global warming has already been scientifically proven and can be re proven by your own research if you ever so choose. While yes, the government wants to control what you do, they also have to do something... and that means fixing things. Point being there are several ozone tears that aren't repairing due to focused pollution... and will NEVER be fixed until such a thing is stopped.

The point is not control in this discussion, regardless of even if that was the initial focus, it is the AFTERMATH that matters, and if it fixes something, then so be it.

Hiroshima was nuked, and it wasn't a big choice for those that did it... we all lament it, but if we hadn't the war would have gone on. Control, and stopping the war yes... but it lead to peace and it lead to more than just that.

(I apologize, my grammar and English skills seem to have decreased in this statement.. I will most likely polish it up later on)

Just wondering if we can't confront them(the mofos who want to ban cigars) What should we do about the antis? I want to enjoy smoking cigars till the day I die. I dont want them taking my cigars away from me. I mean I love cigars and truely enjoy them.




Look I'm all into peaceful talkings but if they wanna throw down lets go.

-just tired of all the bans
-tax increases
-other daily bs.

Sorry abour ranting and sounding pissed but I just don't want to get stepped on.

[Delsana]

Originally Posted by Cigary

I know you are a Bible student so let me answer you with something that you probably forgot to read in your studies. This thread has gone on for enough time so that we are well aware of what your thoughts are and yet you do not seem to want to let this go.





Where you once had our attention at the beginning of this thread you began to lose us once you took the stance that your intellect was better than ours and you kept on telling us that your grasp of this subject matter was even higher. Your behavior suggests that you are more interested in proving a point you believe in rather than to learn what the facts are. You will read in Proverbs how a fool continues to speak their mind only because they want to prove their intellect and what happens is that they show what a fool really looks like. Put the shovel down and redirect your energy to something more worthwhile than a daily debate.

.... Err...

After reviewing all my statements, I can assure you that they were not intended for what you seem to think the sole purpose of them was. In truth, they were logical responses, not meant to prove intellect or become better than others, simply to give a side to the unrepresented. A logical and well researched and understood side with no improper statements, at that.

If it seemed otherwise, I do sincerely apologize.

Edits:

Bans are always like that... which is why instead of ranting and being angry about things; discussing it with them, and involving ourselves in the actual events, is a good idea. If we don't, then it will be banned and we'll just have no say.

[Cigary]

Originally Posted by Delsana

.... Err...

After reviewing all my statements, I can assure you that they were not intended for what you seem to think the sole purpose of them was. In truth, they were logical responses, not meant to prove intellect or become better than others, simply to give a side to the unrepresented. A logical and well researched and understood side with no improper statements, at that.

If it seemed otherwise, I do sincerely apologize.

Edits:

Bans are always like that... which is why instead of ranting and being angry about things; discussing it with them, and involving ourselves in the actual events, is a good idea. If we don't, then it will be banned and we'll just have no say.

I will say this, Delsana,,,you are a different duck. At times I'm not sure if your elevator is stuck between floors or you just love to debate subjects more than you love the subject matter.

[Delsana]

Originally Posted by Cigary

I will say this, Delsana,,,you are a different duck. At times I'm not sure if your elevator is stuck between floors or you just love to debate subjects more than you love the subject matter.

Perhaps it's the fact that the elevator was turned into a gravitiy lift long ago, and instead of it being on Sublevel - 320 Sector N, it's all the way at Level 17... enjoy the stair ride, because it doesn't go "UP" from that section anymore.

Debate is fun, but intellectual discussion and education, learning, or betterment is even better. I see opportunity whenever I am encountered with arguments.

[Cigary]

Originally Posted by Delsana

Perhaps it's the fact that the elevator was turned into a gravitiy lift long ago, and instead of it being on Sublevel - 320 Sector N, it's all the way at Level 17... enjoy the stair ride, because it doesn't go "UP" from that section anymore.

Debate is fun, but intellectual discussion and education, learning, or betterment is even better. I see opportunity whenever I am encountered with arguments.

Most people drink from the fountain of knowledge, some only gargle.

Delsana, you're killin me!

[commonsenseman]

This thread has become very entertaining.

[eyesack]

Originally Posted by Cigary

Most people drink from the fountain of knowledge, some only gargle.

Delsana, you're killin me!

Aw CRAP! Gary, you mean to tell me that it's NOT like MOUTHWASH?!?!?! My dad always DID tell me to RTFM... (Read The 'Friendly' Manual)*mutters curses under his breath* ahahaha

Well, some might gargle... Just don't be the one to drown in the gene pool! =P

[eyesack]

Originally Posted by Delsana

.... Err...

After reviewing all my statements, I can assure you that they were not intended for what you seem to think the sole purpose of them was. In truth, they were logical responses, not meant to prove intellect or become better than others, simply to give a side to the unrepresented. A logical and well researched and understood side with no improper statements, at that.

If it seemed otherwise, I do sincerely apologize.

Edits:

Bans are always like that... which is why instead of ranting and being angry about things; discussing it with them, and involving ourselves in the actual events, is a good idea. If we don't, then it will be banned and we'll just have no say.

I can use big words too... SUPERCALIFRAGILISTICEXPIALIDOCIOUS! UNNNH! CHICKUN WING!

[madurolover]

I think this one has run it's course.