Potential ways around the taxation?

[jbock]

Originally Posted by Teninx

I understand your frustration, and my 'trickery' comment was tounge-in-cheek....but we're not going to win the battle by advocating tax evasion. The manufacturers won't get away with avoiding the tax by selling the packaging unless the packaging is sold without the tobacco content. If a retail outlet sells the CAO Vision box after the cigars are sold, it won't be collecting tobacco tax on it because there isn't any tobacco in the box. If it sells the Vision box for $300. with free cigars included MAYBE that strategy would work, but the box would need seperate invoicing from the cigars, the boxes would have to ship empty and CAO would have to provide the cigars gratis after the boxes arrived.

Somewhat of a rebate program offered my countless retailers. By this product. Once you receive it, you will return the completed rebate form to claim your rebate of cigars, or return your "prize claim form" and nifty smokable sticks will be delivered to you.

Jim

[borndead1]

Originally Posted by GeneralDisorder

Exactly

That's the kind of thinking we need - one step ahead.

We may not be able to beat them forever, but history shows that this sort of anti-tobacco campaigning only lasts for 20 years or so at a time - forever isn't the problem - NOW is.

This legislation is directly tied to the SCHIP, which will eventually be replaced with some other program, or some other source of funding when the tobacco industry is either drained or finds ways around paying.

We have to be quicker on our feet than the law makers. Think outside the box and make them fight for this tax money - but it can't be a straight fight - there are (sadly) more of them than us. So it's got to be fought on their terms - using their weapons. Paperwork, bean counting, and a generous portion of lies, deceit and manipulation.

Rick

[SIZE="5"]How 'bout we just boot them out of office instead?[/SIZE]

I believe that if our taxes were lower and government spending was kept to a minimum, Americans would donate more money to charity, and kids could get health care that way. Americans already donate quite a bit of money to charity, imagine what we would donate if our taxes were about 50% lower than they are now? We wouldn't need programs like this, which by the way would give government even MORE power over our lives and the raising of our children. Or, even better, how 'bout we eliminate foreign aid? It's completely unconstitutional anyway, and if we did it would lower our taxes and we could fund a child health care program that way. Remember folks, the only reason the government gets away with this kind of shit is because we allow them to.

[GeneralDisorder]

Originally Posted by Teninx

but we're not going to win the battle by advocating tax evasion. The manufacturers won't get away with avoiding the tax by selling the packaging unless the packaging is sold without the tobacco content.

Yeah - that might not work so well. But what about the idea of using retail membership programs? Or as the above poster suggested a "Rebate" or "Prize" program to alleviate the tax? Then there's the Indian reservation idea (that has potential as crazy as it sounds). There's lots and lots of ways around this - many other industries have had to deal with it and been successful at keeping prices low.

Rick

[GeneralDisorder]

Originally Posted by borndead1

[SIZE=5]How 'bout we just boot them out of office instead?[/SIZE]

That would be nice, but isn't probably an option. "WE" (as in the cigar smoking community) can't do much with respect to lobbying them out of office as they have the majority public opinion on their side. So, like any force that is smaller than it's oppressors, we have to use different tactics. You can't just take them head-on - we would never win with public opinion of tobacco so low.

Rick

[Smokey Bob]

When Colorado first passed its' "helmet law", they didn't word the law well and bikers were strapping the helmet to their knees. The law didn't specify on which part of the body the helmet had to be worn.

That problem was remedied very quickly.

In 1973, Phoenix Arizona was having real troubles with public restroom assaults/exposures/come-ons by gay men.

They passed a law saying that public exposure in a public restroom was illegal and tried to enforce the law. Trouble was that the law also banned peeing in a public restroom.

Again, this was resolved in a very efficient time frame.

If there is a way around the taxation, due to poor wording of the bill, they will fix it quickly.

Money (taxes) speaks loudly to politicians

Robert

[icehog3]

Let's just join the Posse Comitatus!!

[WyoBob]

Originally Posted by croatan

Artificially setting prices for valueless goods sounds to me like a pretty darn good way to end up sharing a cell with the Smartest Guys in the Room.

You mean like Ken Lay who's now a dancer in a chorus line in Vegas?

Speaking of the "Smartest Guys", the author of the book is a friend of mine. She's the daughter of my back packing buddy. She was here just a couple of weeks ago and went back packing with her dad and some of his friends. I was supposed to go on the trip but was on call for a well job. Of course, the call never came

WyoBob

[GeneralDisorder]

Originally Posted by Smokey Bob

That problem was remedied very quickly.

...

Again, this was resolved in a very efficient time frame.

If there is a way around the taxation, due to poor wording of the bill, they will fix it quickly.

Money (taxes) speaks loudly to politicians

Robert

That actually might be a good thing - I think that part of the problem is that our representatives in office don't know about the cigar tax, or don't fully understand it or it's implications. In the process of "rectification" they may see the error of their ways and rewrite the tax with a more sane approach. It can only work in our favor anyway - if there's a huge push to find legal ways to avoid the tax then it's a good indication that it NEEDS review and possibly rewriting.

Rick

[Coffee Grounds]

If the tax gets passed I think a lot of retailers will open up shops outside the us. We will end up paying higher shipping charges.

Right now as I understand it there are no taxes online.
So even if the bill gets passed the gov would have to address the issue of taxing the net.

[Teninx]

Originally Posted by Coffee Grounds

If the tax gets passed I think a lot of retailers will open up shops outside the us. We will end up paying higher shipping charges.

Right now as I understand it there are no taxes online.
So even if the bill gets passed the gov would have to address the issue of taxing the net.

This excise tax will be imposed on the manufacturer/importer's wholesale price, so it will built into cost to the retailer. Online vendors don't collect state taxes for purchases shipped out of thier own state, but the taxes are still due and payable by the customer. In the case of tobacco purchases, the retailer has to forward names, addresses and items purchased to the receiving state's revenue department. Many states are following up with demand letters for sales/tobacco taxes due.