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post #21 of 48 Old 02-02-2011, 09:33 PM
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Re: Murrays Standard Mixture Mellow?

Does anybody know the specific difference between Murray and Orlik. I can def. tell one from the other, but is it like two completely diff. blends or just like a subtle diff. between the two.
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post #22 of 48 Old 02-02-2011, 10:08 PM
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Re: Murrays Standard Mixture Mellow?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bierundtabak View Post
Does anybody know the specific difference between Murray and Orlik. I can def. tell one from the other, but is it like two completely diff. blends or just like a subtle diff. between the two.
Well, people that have had both are all over the map (better/same/worse). But there really isn't a way to know just how different they are.
Are the proportions of the component tobaccos the same? Are the same sources or varieties of the component tobaccos used? Is the humidficication method and amount the same? Etc. The answer to all those is obviously NO. Doesn't mean Orlik isn't good, but to expect them to match the Murrays blends is unrealistic.
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post #23 of 48 Old 02-02-2011, 10:33 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Murrays Standard Mixture Mellow?

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Originally Posted by ultramag View Post
So, if I understand you correctly, your saying that you believe this is an authentic Murray's tin? Also, where did you come up with the information in the sentence I bolded?
I have a notebook I keep information about blends and manufacturers.

The information you bolded came from the Ottawa Pipe Club website. As I said before I'm not allowed to post links but the URL is

It starts with http(colon)(slash)(slash)

homepage(dot)mac(dot)com(slash)ericmelby(slash)Pip eGroup(slash)odyssey
(dot)htm

Sorry for the convoluted way to give you the link but it wouldn't allow me to do it any other way.

I hope it works. There are some interesting articles there.
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post #24 of 48 Old 02-02-2011, 10:43 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Murrays Standard Mixture Mellow?

To ChronoB

Thanks for the link to your Dunhill tin but unfortunately you don't ship to Canada.
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post #25 of 48 Old 02-03-2011, 01:05 AM
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Re: Murrays Standard Mixture Mellow?

Quote:
Originally Posted by yvesmary View Post
I have a notebook I keep information about blends and manufacturers.

The information you bolded came from the Ottawa Pipe Club website. As I said before I'm not allowed to post links but the URL is

It starts with http(colon)(slash)(slash)

homepage(dot)mac(dot)com(slash)ericmelby(slash)Pip eGroup(slash)odyssey
(dot)htm

Sorry for the convoluted way to give you the link but it wouldn't allow me to do it any other way.

I hope it works. There are some interesting articles there.
That's an awesome link. One of the most complete and accurate (according to what I think myself and others have figured out by going through tins in personal collections that we know the purchase dates and sources of) about what Dunhill tins are Murray tins and those that are Orlik. It's one of those things that will always contain a grey area due to how the swap was handled. When they send the tobaccos and tins to Orlik, as virtually all sources report they did, there will most definitely be an overlap which causes uncertainty. There also most certainly has to be a difference in these blends to someone with an exceptional palate I would think. Even the un-tinned Murray blended tobacco that made the trip to Denmark would've been subject to a different environment that would have to alter it. I don't think that most of us, myself included, could tell much difference if put to the test blind. The article is correct in that basically the day this info hit the pipe forums many felt that Dunhill tobacco was "no good" anymore. If you talk to many of the old timers that enjoyed the Dunhill blended tobacco they'll tell you that the Murray blended was inferior. Who knows? I suspect that they're all right to a point. I imagine as sources of component tobaccos changed and bigger businesses made the blending more automated and less personal quality has fell off somewhat through the years. Just speculation on my part. It's also an impossible comparison to compare today's Orlik stuff to Murray tins with 5+ years age, much less Dunhill tins with 30+ years on them. It's just gonna be different due to the aging if nothing else IMO.

To bring this all back around to the tin that started this thread, I still feel it most likely isn't a Murray blended tin. I think the label is too modern and it's just too new for Murray's tobacco to have lasted that long in the Orlik plant. I admit no one can be certain because of the grey area mentioned above. There was for sure a time when it's anyone's guess though and perhaps this one is from that time. I know if I thought I needed Murray's I wouldn't be laying out the big bucks for this one. Just too many things against it IMO with the information I have at hand at the moment.

I'll ask once more for curiousity's sake.....do you believe this to be a Murray's tin from information you have in your sources, and if so, why? Half of what I've come to rely on for determining Murray tobacco in the U.S. would not even exist on this tin. That is the sticker placed on the backside by the U.S. importer. The other is the shape of the bottom half of the tin. As stated in the article you linked, the tins were changed by Orlik and the shape is noticeably different on the bottom of the bottom half. I feel the distribution sticker is the most sure-fire way to know which blender you have. I think there was likely some Murray tobacco in the system after the tins changed and and the distributor did as well, but am fairly confident that the tobaccos that hit here before those changes (primarily distributorship) were Murray blended.

Here is the link for those interested. It's well worth the read. I guess if this interests you it is anyway. Lot's of good, accurate information here gathered into one spot for those of you with an interest who weren't around during all this happening the last few years.

Ottawa Pipe Club

But real men--real men prefer their women like pipes. They knock them gently and care for them always. No man shares his pipes!!!
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post #26 of 48 Old 02-03-2011, 09:05 AM
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Re: Murrays Standard Mixture Mellow?

I asked the ebay seller about it, who sent me the following message:

Hello sir,
Yes this tin was bought in 2010 but from the old stocks of my confidence tobbaconist.
I put new pictures were you can read the barcode (ean) and you can verify (for instance, at Search by barcode | GEPIR | Services | GS1 - The global language of business) that this tin comes from BAT who, as you know, in 2005 buyed Murray's and Sons company.
Thank you for your interest.
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post #27 of 48 Old 02-03-2011, 10:16 AM
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Re: Murrays Standard Mixture Mellow?

In the last year he has sold a few tins of dunhill and all POS+ feedback. Shouldnt we give this some credit at least. I have to admit though you gents are great at fact finding and I love learning from all of you. Now the big question! Is there really that much difference in the old and new or is it just attachment to the idea. Would most of you past a taste test in a way between the 2? Kind of like the old Pepsi Challenge...

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post #28 of 48 Old 02-03-2011, 10:29 AM
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Re: Murrays Standard Mixture Mellow?

Just my 2 pence worth. I am a long time smoker of Dunhill tobaccos and could not see much difference in Murray's and Orlik's renditions. There was a noticable difference from the days when Dunhill blended the tobacco themselves. When you opened a Dunhill tim many years ago the paper pleated liner would be stained brown from the nicely fermented tobacco and the taste reflected the aging even though those were not old tins. I wouldn't pay more for a Murray's tin than I would for a well aged Orlik tin because I couldn't taste the difference. It may be my palatte is not well enough developed, but why pay for something you can't taste. I'm not in to bragging rights. i'm just glad we have the Dunhills we can get at a reasonable price.
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post #29 of 48 Old 02-03-2011, 12:28 PM
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Re: Murrays Standard Mixture Mellow?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Requiem View Post
I asked the ebay seller about it, who sent me the following message:

Hello sir,
Yes this tin was bought in 2010 but from the old stocks of my confidence tobbaconist.
I put new pictures were you can read the barcode (ean) and you can verify (for instance, at Search by barcode | GEPIR | Services | GS1 - The global language of business) that this tin comes from BAT who, as you know, in 2005 buyed Murray's and Sons company.
Thank you for your interest.
I was hoping someone would contact the seller. That is the new Orlik tin, and what I would bet anything is the European version of the newer EU sticker Orlik applies, and a very suspicious story from a B&M all rolled into one IMO. You definitely know more about the tins from over there Gustavo. Has to be Orlik right? Unkown and highly suspect of being Orlik at best?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Firedawg View Post
In the last year he has sold a few tins of dunhill and all POS+ feedback. Shouldnt we give this some credit at least. I have to admit though you gents are great at fact finding and I love learning from all of you. Now the big question! Is there really that much difference in the old and new or is it just attachment to the idea. Would most of you past a taste test in a way between the 2? Kind of like the old Pepsi Challenge...
It's just all about the learning and sharing FD. I have no desire to credit or discredit this guy. I don't want the tin at the opening $15 bid, much less what it's probably gonna sell for. It is kind of dis-heartening to see auctions like this posted that are most likely incorrectly listed. It's a shame to see someone taken advantage of, but I guess when they want to jump in head first and spend ten times as fast as they're learning maybe a hard lesson early is the best thing.

As for the difference in the blenders I have a feeling it would be an embarrassment to a lot of people who can tell and don't like Orlik if they ever had to face the "Dunhill Challenge". I also believe there are probably some who can tell with some of the blends. They've got to be a little different at the least because sources of components and atmosphere have changed. All those things will make a difference. I personally haven't smoked any Orlik to speak of. All my favorite Dunhill's remain either discontinued or at least unavailable in the U.S.. What I've had out of the new stuff was Dunhill Deluxe Navy Rolls. It is either way off, needs to age, or I have a completely different memory of the old stuff than is right. I've got one old Murray tin of them left to compare one of these days.

But real men--real men prefer their women like pipes. They knock them gently and care for them always. No man shares his pipes!!!
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post #30 of 48 Old 02-03-2011, 02:13 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Murrays Standard Mixture Mellow?

Thanks Chad for putting the link for the Ottawa Pipe Club.

I want to believe the seller. It seems like a lot of work to fake it for the few dollars involved.

I've never had the original Dunhills or the Murrays so I can't comment on the taste. But I've just opened a new London Mixture and Standard Mixture. Both look identical, dark brown, brown and lots of yellow brown pieces, same moisture level. More importantly they taste great and I can't taste any difference between the two. I think they will age beautifully.

I will be smoking these regularly and can't see paying any premiums for Murray tins.
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